On a quest to find a great Dungeon crawl fully build for ICRPG!

question
#14

“ In other words, what is the need for going and finding third party content when you have all the tools? I sincerely hope this is not taken as a passive aggressive comment, it’s just a curious statement of a possible reason.”

This is a very interesting question.
I’ll allow myself a reply, not that I’m a content creator (well, I’ve done a lot of things like everyone else but never with a view to publishing), but because this subject was mentioned on the next thread.

Why do you want modules when you have all the tools?
Well, maybe because we don’t want to create ? Because we don’t have the time? Or simply because to have the whole vision of the author, his talent and his reflection in the modules.
I may be old school, but I think that preparation work, writing skills and playtesting give a better result than improvisation for someone who doesn’t necessarily want to do it.

DIY modules are great, but you have to do DIY with them.
But I prefer them to the “classic” (whole) modules, because with that you can play as is following the talent and vision of the author AND do DIY because, as everywhere in our hobby, we can modify what we want.
Nothing is mandatory and we have the 2 possibilities to satisfy everyone, and that’s great.

#15

Allow me to chime in with my thoughts, opinions and experience as the “biggest” 3rd party content creator for ICRPG. In terms of pages published, I think I’m the 2nd dude after Hank in the ICRPG scene.

I’m gonna start with the harsh truth first:
Polished end products take a lot of time, but they only pay pennies.

In other words, the amount of work that needs to be put in does not justify the return. It is nowhere near it actually. That’s why people enter the publishing scene with a fray but they disappear after a short while. This doesn’t hold for one person only: Hank. He’s the head honcho and he creates a lot of things with his social media presence. He does commissions and supports himself in many ways, in addition to publishing.

Any 3rd party publisher has none of this. So us plebs have to support ourselves with product sales only and that doesn’t work.

Personally, I’m not gonna complain because for a nobody, I shattered any self publishing barriers thanks to the amazing ICRPG community which has supported and is still supporting me. I couldn’t have dreamed of being a best seller without you guys.

I’m still here, and I expect to be here but that’s because I changed my thinking about publishing. It is now only a hobby for me, not a source of income, because it can’t be. When I started my journey 4 years ago, I was thinking maybe this could be my profession. Last year I saw that it can’t be.

The reason I haven’t been publishing in over a year is simply because I can’t afford it. I can’t afford the time and effort. My Khan’s Spells and Feats books took 3 months of full time work each. They are great books in my opinion, both in content and production but such a quality comes at a cost. I don’t have such a time anymore because I have two new jobs which I have to focus on to earn money.

My jobs are improving, but they still need a lot of time and energy on my part. This won’t be like that in the future, as in the time investment will get less and less in the coming years but I’m nowhere near there yet. So, I have to keep my publishing efforts to a minimum.

For a long time, creating adventures was in my radar. I saw the need in the community, like a couple guys are already saying in this thread. DIY systems are great but sometimes you don’t want to. You don’t have the creative energy, you don’t have the time to create something polished, so and so forth. There is a real need for content in the community.

The question is though, “how much need is there?”.

ICRPG’s “any setting is possible” approach is actually problematic from this perspective. It is great for the system because we can play any games we like with this one simple system. On the other hand, I have no way of knowing how many sales I can get for any genre, be it sci-fi, fantasy, modern etc. That’s because there is fragmentation in the user base. For 3rd party content, it is a big headache.

Long story short, there are many problems in the 3rd party publishing scene.

This isn’t why I haven’t published any adventures yet though. Like I said, I was looking at this as a hobby, and money wasn’t an issue.

The issue is time. I have only so much free time to dedicate to publishing and after playing D&D 5E for many months, I once again saw how bad that system is. Inspiration struck and I started working on my new RPG system aimed primarily at D&D players.

It is basically D&D in the form of ICRPG, but much more simplified and streamlined, with tweaks where necessary to plug the weaknesses and stupidities I see in D&D each week at my gaming table. Yet it will mostly be ICRPG combatible. I expect that any new rules I introduce can be ported to ICRPG without any problems.

Anyway, it will take a long time to finish and it takes up all my alotted publishing time for the time being. That’s why I’m not writing any adventures currently, even though that would be fun.

In a few months, my writing should slow down and I’d need to test the system at the table. Maybe then I’ll be able to write an adventure. Who knows.

As a note, any adventure I would create would be just like @JDH says and what @chamochin expects: They would work as a baseline with multiple options and you’d be able to hack them to fit your vision and your table.

As the final note, publishing needs to be supported to happen.

Cheers for reading my impenetrable wall of text.

#16

I don’t have a full dungeon, but I run my Darkest Dungeon-games as a low-prep sidescrolling dungeon crawl.
Have players roll a d4 for the biome (1: Ruins, 2: Weald, 3: Warrens, 4: Cove), prep 3-5 rooms and biome-specific monsters (which monsters can be found in which biome can be researched in the Darkest Dungeon-wiki) plus stuff to interact like curios, things that trigger stress-checks.
If players move from room to room roll a skull dice. Skull face means there’s monsters, no skull face means there’s no monsters. Have a big boss in the last room and a simple plot hook like: “There’s a pig-like abomination in the ruins. Those who rid us of that wretched being, shall be rewarded greatly.” or “The barkeeper of our tavern has gone missing in the cove. There’s rumours of horrible fish beings and eldritch priests. Help us open the tavern again. Drinks will be on the house.” etc.

#17

It’s crazy we had the same idea!! So cool I love Darkest Dungeon so much.
I did the same for Mork Borg!

#18

I think that ICRPG needs at least one fully kitted adventure module(preferably fantasy setting). It would help new DMs and would be a good way in promoting ICRPG as whole. I think of it like DnD starter sets. You get the rules and one starting adventure to start right away. It could be separate purchase, but you get the idea.

#19

There’s a big collection of ICRPG-adventures (see here: Confused about recommended adventures) that one can play in lieu of a “starter set”. I feel they exactly serve the purpose of introducing new players to the game.

#20

Oh god, I totally agree with you on that idea!
I miss it so much!

#21

Which are you referring? If we are talking about “adventures compilation” I see them more like blueprints, but not fully flashed out adventures. They still need preparation. For new DM it can get overwhelming. What I have in mind is 5e style module with text boxes and everything in it. It would be good introduction and a tutorial at the same time. This way you can easily recommend it to new people and grow you user base. Is simple business logic :slight_smile:

#22

Totally agree.

To start, I cannot recommend the gem given to me on the other thread (thanks again for that!): Jewel of the Monkey God.

It’s a short adventure for a one shot, everything is there: a well drawn map, the enemies, their number, the Target, all the advice. It’s a small dungeon with a little exotic twist. That’s exactly what I was looking for, I recommend it too.

(almost free on DriveThruRPG)

#23

I see. It probably comes down to a question of approaches to adventure-prep in general (like how much do you want the adventure to account for and how much do you feel comfortable in creating yourself).
Me personally I can’t ever run adventures straight out of the box without changing anything. I started playing Pathfinder 2E a week ago and I already changed things while I prepared the first session (and I don’t use the text boxes with stuff you are supposed to read).

I am also not sure about this (and that might be due to different approaches in preparing adventures), but doesn’t every adventure need preparation? 5E-style modules even more so, because there’s more text to read and more work to do to find out which part of the text contains the important information needed for the adventure? Do people read 5E-modules and then play them straight from the book without making their own notes or preparing stuff that amounts to about the same time you would spend to prepare one of the ICRPG-adventures? (I don’t really know, maybe that’s the way people prepare 5E?)
If you want, I can translate my notes for the Pathfinder 2E beginner adventure Menace under Otari and transpose it into ICRPG and you can tell me if that’s something that can be played as-is or if that’s something more akin to a blueprint and needs to be fleshed out?

#24

If I may, I think it’s not too much preparation we’re talking about, but more about filling in all the holes left by this adventure framework which is therefore only a framework, not an “entire” adventure. ".

The beauty with an entire adventure is that you can work it however you want. On the other hand, you can’t play by the book in an adventure framework…

#25

This thread hehe.
The world is jam-packed with ‘complete’ adventures. Pathfinder adventure paths are so ‘complete’ you just press A to play them… almost just a novel. If that is what you seek, there are countless options. Runehammer specifically, vocally denies the myth of a ‘complete’ anything in the hobby. The figuring out, the filling in, the customizing, and ESPECIALLY the changes due to player monkey wrenching are my focus. To lament Runehammer adventures not being pathfinder adventures is like lamenting peanut butter not being jelly.

As for the ever-invoked hypothetical ‘new GM,’ I strongly believe that your experience level has no impact on the style of game delivered, the ease/difficulty of any given format, or the utility of any given format. Being new is a mindset, and one conducive to immense creativity. If the ‘new GM’ is described as uncreative, therefore requiring more prescription to be effective, I refute that as well. The beginner’s mind is the MOST creative, On a final note, this hobby, to me, is focused on creativity, not buy-play.

For all these reasons, I can’t provide a pathfinder-like adventure as is being discussed here, and have no plans to. The JOURNEYS in HARD SUIT are my latest offering, and I dig 'em.

As for the type of play you’re seeking, ORDER OF THE AMBER DIE and their treatment of Pathfinder adventure paths is absolutely best in class… masters of 100% fidelity to utterly ‘complete’ content. Check 'em out! (they’re also a chill group of homies.)

#26

I’ll be honest, my first response to the title was, “Better start writing.”

And I realize that is dismissive and mean. I don’t want to be that person, but I find the sudden desire on the forums here for pre-written content to be a big surprise. I’ve never found an adventure to be such an onerous thing to create that I felt like I had to have someone else do it for me, but I suppose if I’m being empathetic, I can’t run and dribble a basketball at the same time, so the spectrum of things people find tricky is broad. Even so, my advice is that your players’ expectations for an adventure are lower than you think they are. Just get comfortable showing up at the table with a strong idea, and not all the answers, and have a good time. Also, it’s OK to ask them for 5 minutes to come up with something - these are your friends after all.

Hope you find or make a game that’s a ton of fun. Good luck!

#27

why not just use an existing product from any D&D edition. ignore the stats they give and give them ICRPG stats. people act like there has to be new content created. I cant understand why this is. There is enough stuff that is easily coverted to last a lifetime.

#28

Some people like Home Depot - get all the raw materials you need & make it yourself.

Some people like IKEA - everything you need is in the box.

Neither is right or wrong for running RPG’s… I mean, building stuff… They’re just different.

I’ve literally & figuratively shopped at both but prefer Home Depot… That’s why I hang out on this forum.

#29

Hey Hank!
Very cool to read you and get your creative point of view. I respect your production, and it’s with the respect due to a creative that I respond to you.
I so wish my clients felt the same way :smile:

Lots of interesting things.
For starters, the format. Why are we talking about Parhfinder modules? I don’t get it.
I personally never could, and probably never will, have the time to prepare those hundreds of pages. Throughout the other post, the examples given were adventures between 1 and 12 page-ich.

Creativity now. It’s very interesting to have your point of view, but on this subject, I can’t not answer, because my job is to be creative, 10 hours a day (more in design than in writing). And I’m telling you: ideas have qualities. Like so many other things, there are crappy ideas, there are great ideas, there are average ideas, there are complicated ideas, etc… so no, the ideas of a GM who is already managing something else won’t necessarily be great (I’m talking about lived and seen experiences).
Mothership modules are not creative for you? The DCC modules you play are not creative for you?
What I don’t understand is this tyranny of forced creativity.

In the evening when I’m tired and I have my little role-playing moment, I sometimes want something simple and of quality, well written -when I’m myself creative- simply to put my energy to take care of my way of telling the story, to give rhythm, to be attentive to my players. Isn’t that enough to ask of a GM already?
That’s why the market is full of “whole” adventures, with no holes to fill: you can play them easily, and you change things if you want to, not because you have to.
As a reminder, I had all the Kickstarter books from my country for months, plus the maps, print + pdf, and spent a ton of time learning about this simple game that is ICRPG. Finally an opportunity to discover the game in a club. I read Doomvault (as it is THE rite of passage adventure according to several reco). And here… I don’t understand. I feel like I’m being given half a recipe. And that I’m being forced to do something: DIY through improvisation.

But I can do DIY whenever I want, even on “complete” adventures, that’s the principle of roleplaying, right? Why force myself?

I sincerely think that the time and talent of an author gives better ideas than the improvisation of an overloaded GM. And if that GM wants to replace things, he can always, at least everything is provided.

I’ll end Hank just by asking you what you think of the one page Mothership pamphlets? And what do you think of the DCC RPG modules? It’s a far, far cry from the huge Pathfinder books isn’t it?
Don’t you think it’s creative?
What do you think of the fact that EVERYTHING is given to the GM, and then they do their own thing?

Thanks for taking the time to read me friend. I wish you a long and prosperous life friend :slight_smile:

Hey @The_Merlitron.
I’m taking the liberty of replying to you because I think this “sudden desire for complete adventure” is my fault…

I followed a video of Khane talking about Doomvault, went to see it in my book and… then came here asking for advice and recommendations that was NOT on this model.
I didn’t realize at all that ICRPG only had one way to play, via mandatory DIY, and it was my surprise (and initial misunderstanding) that led me to respond here.

My players are not friends but club people, so varied, with total rpg beginners as well as old experienced ones.
Thanks for your advice but again you are explaining to me (if you are talking to me?) something I know how to do, but that I have explained well as not wanting to do for my next game.
If an adventure is not that expensive to create, why doesn’t the author create it? What is his big idea? Where is his talent? What does the temple in the lava look like?

Can you see yourself telling a story to one of your friends, and during your story you don’t say some parts and tell him “now you do it yourself”?
You provide the full story, or nothing :smile:

I don’t really want to “aim low” for my players’ expectations. Just a short fantasy scenario to maybe make new players want to continue.

#30

I think we are running the risk of turning this thread into Confused about recommended adventures 2.0

I don’t mean to be disrespectful but I am going to be blunt with you (and I only speak for myself): I get the impression that the problems you have are not problems that any adventure design of any game can resolve.

  1. If you are going into a game being tired, any TTRPG-experience will likely suffer. It doesn’t matter if you play ICRPG, Mothership or Mörk Borg. If you are tired, you should rest.
  2. It doesn’t help that any recommendations we give you are dismissed because they are too DIY for you.
    I can only echo what has been said before: you want this peanut butter to be jelly. Lamenting the fact that peanut butter is peanut butter and blaming the peanut butter for it, feels unfair to me.
  3. If we are being really honest (and nitpicky) even the aforementioned Mothership-pamphlets are not “complete” and require you to fill holes, be creative, and “force” you to DIY.

If you want something you can play as-is I can share my notes for Orvald’s Tower with you. I have successfully run this game with new people at a TTRPG-event a few weeks ago. All of them had fun (although all their characters died) and one of the players bought the ICRPG Master Edition afterwards.
I used the maps @GoblinJunkyard did here: Orvald's Tower Play Report (so you only describe what you can see on the maps anyway, no need for extra notes and boxes with flavour-text) had pre-generated characters (which I can also share), watched @KaneDriscol’s video about redoing his notes for the adventure and did an index card with a monster AI, I didn’t use. If there’s anything else you need, I think there’s lots of people here who will happily help you. :slight_smile:

#31

This is literally what RPGs are to me. “I’ve made a scenario; tell me my friends, who are the protagonists, and how are they getting out of this mess?” I also invite players to fill in details and describe things.

Look, not everything is for everyone, so maybe that’s the case here? I’ve never used a published adventure for anything more than idea fuel, so the adventure frame model has worked pretty well for me. That’s a drag that filling in those gaps seems so onerous for you. It sounds like your job has you really creatively burned out, so to give yourself a break, maybe just be a player for a while? Like, does it have to be you in the GM chair? Or just run something else?

I get that you’re in the market for a thing, and the thing doesn’t seem exist, and you don’t want to have to write the thing. That sucks! But that’s no reason to lay a bunch of aggro at the feat of the publisher about making you be creative. That makes you sound more angry, than disappointed, and beyond being heard in your frustration, I’m not certain what your purpose in persisting may be.

#32

as I said… a zillion options out there.
Rock on, may your dice roll high

#33

Ahah you are not disrespectful my friend :smile:
And actually… I kind of agree with you. It’s true that I’m new to the forum, and I wouldn’t want to create a scandal of anything. I do think I’ve learned a few things about ICRPG and will slowly back out of here to leave you like-minded people. (I didn’t think I’d be posting this much I admit!)

To answer you:
1)
By “tired” just read that I don’t feel like doing the same thing at night that I do during the day. Playing a rpg game is a good way to have fun and take your mind off it. But thanks for taking care of that :smile:

Oh no whining on my end.
Just trying to explain that I was looking for jelly when everyone here tells me to get peanut butter. I really thought ICRPG had both, just like every other game. My fault I should have known better.

For the Mothership pamphlets (or Mausritter, or Mork Borg, etc) I invite you to take another look… and what do you think of the DCC RPG ready-to-play modules? (12 pages-ich) I’m curious.

Thanks for your recommendation. I already expressed my opinion about Orvarld Tower on the other thread.
The only ICRPG designed recommendation I got that fits what I’m looking for (and suitable for an initiation) is Jewel of the Monkey God, which is dope.