Using MTG colors as Spell TYPES


#1

Hi all,
I’ve been slowly getting into the magic system with ICRPG, and I love the simplicity and malleability so far. One thing that I still haven’t fully understood though, is the choices of all the types of spells. Blood, curse, Elder, Fire, etc. all sound like very cool kinds of magic, but they almost seem very heavy on flavor rather than actual balance.

I know ICRPG is much more about streamlined rules and fun than balance, but I like to have a little bit more balance than what this seems like. The fire type, for instance. You can practically take any form of magic, and give it a flavor of fire and now it’s a ‘fire’ type. Want to teleport distances? do it through fire. Want to buff your sword? give it a fire enchantment. Want to set a rune trap? Explosions happen when a creature triggers it. My issue with this is that each type of magic doesn’t really seem to have it’s own identity. Any spell can be ‘flavored’ in ICRPG to be another kind. Maybe that’s a good thing in some aspects, but it doesn’t help define a character and what kinds of spells they cast.

I’m thinking about homebrewing part of the ICRPG magic rules to make the types of magic a little different, A thought I had, was to use the colors as found in the MTG card game. I used to play a lot, and always found they were incredibly flavorful, as well as having quite a lot of balance between them. It’s also been fairly easy to figure what color any spell should be, should I be thinking of converting spells from ICRPG core or from D&D spell lists.

I’ve come up with some initial rules and laid them out below. Please tell me what you guys think, am I crazy?!

Magic types: Take the 12 types of magic spells found in ICRPG and switch them out for White, Blue, Red, Green, and Black Magic.

Mastery: Mastery comes at the 9th level of a spell kind, rather than the 4th. As such, there are now 9 levels of spells as well. (10 levels including cantrips)

Cantrips: Count as 0 level spells, but with no COST when casting them successfully. They cannot be cast at a higher POWER level than 1.

Casting: Remains the same. Must meet the target in order to cast a spell. When successfully cast, sacrifice hit points equal to the spell level x the spell power.

POWER: The highest POWER a spell can be cast is still 4. This means that the most amount a character can spend on hit points in a single casting is 36 (4x9)

Converting from D&D spells: Conversion here should be fairly simple. The D&D spell would retain it’s level, and a comparable effect must be established. Damaging spells may be more complicated, but levels 1-4 should deal mostly with MAGIC damage and levels 5-9 deal with ULTIMATE damage. Cantrips should do WEAPON damage.

Assigning a magic color: This is mostly based on intuition and familiarity with the colors of MTG.

White should be the best at buffing/ protecting creatures. It should also dip into physical barriers and ‘divine’ spells

Blue should deal with illusion, time, water, and general fluidity.

Red should be the best color for damaging spells. Elemental spells and magic steeped in sheer raw power

Green should be the best color for conjuring and buffing. Any druidic type magic should be green.

Black is the domain of curses and debuffing enemies. It also dips into conjuring (undead) but not as good as green is.

If ever creating a spell, consider what color it should be. Is it a fireball spell? Well that should probably be red. But what if you wanted it to be a ‘divine light beam’ that damages enemies? It probably shouldn’t be as good as Red spells are at damaging, so maybe bump up the spell level by 1 or 2. What about a spell that heals people with the wonders of nature? Make it comparable to a white healing spell, but make it take longer/ occupy a higher spell level.

I’ve also thought about mixing colors into a single spell (like multi colored card). Thought that would be a fun idea for more ‘complicated’ spells, but not sure it’s necessary.

Let me know what you all think!


#2

I’ve messed around with this a bit.

I like the idea of having guild colors or khans/shards. This adds some diversity of spellcasting and depth of character.

Keep up the good work!


#3

I see your points and I mostly agree with you. This doesn’t mean that MAGIC is borked in ICRPG though.

Just like you have observed, SPELLS in ICRPG are created and grouped by their general flavors rather than strict rules, identities or domains. Like you say, you can put any mechanical effect anywhere, if you so wish.

If you don’t know, I am the author of Khan’s Spells & Feats and therefore it is most likely that I’m the second person who spent the most time thinking about spells and magic, after Hank.

My analysis of ICRPG MAGIC concurs with your conclusions and seeing the same thing, I took special care to give each TYPE a certain flavor in my book. For example, FIRE SPELLS usually do ULTIMATE damage, teleporting is done within the DIMENSION TYPE, ENERGY does a lot of damage when compared to another SPELL with the same LEVEL from some other TYPE, CURSE SPELLS have more duration overall, TRANSMUTATION has low duration and many more.

Hank doesn’t really care about mechanical balance and neither do I but I made sure that each and every SPELL under each TYPE is within a certain range in power. I gave weak SPELLS longer duration to compansate or I gave very powerful SPELLS enemy saves and whatnot. Overall I can say that each TYPE feels and plays very differently and no TYPE shines more than others, which is very desirable from my point of view.

The bottom line is, ICRPG MAGIC just works. To be able to fit any mechanical effect under any TYPE can be considered a feature even. This helps players to create the necessary SPELLS within their MASTERIES and that is a good thing. There is no danger of the game breaking due to this because MAGES are limited in the number of SPELLS they can create.

No system can be for everyone so if you don’t like something, feel free to change it. Your thinking is neither better nor worse but if it is better for you, then that is the only thing that matters. Just be aware that it takes a lot of work to produce something that works well and is reasonably balanced and also flavorful. 9 spell levels is a b*tch for example, you’ll probably go insane creating that many spells. It took me months to create all of the spells up to LEVEL IV and the framework underneath. If you are willing to put in the many, many hours required, go ahead. Creating is certainly fun!

If you haven’t seen my book, I’d say take look. Maybe it will be a better fit for you without you doing all that work.


#4

Oh my gosh, I think you just saved me so many headaches and time spent down rabbit holes. I was actually looking at your book on drivethrurpg just the other day and was thinking about buying it. Now I’ll definitely give it a shot!

And yes, I definitely think balance is an overrated concern in many circles of rpg groups. Many times it’s solved by throwing more enemies at the players, or beefing up the boss, or “level 2 of the boss battle” type of stuff. I like just enough balance between the players so they are motivated to diversify their characters and abilities.

I may end up making spells for an icrpg/MTG system in the future because I can’t help myself and get so into homebrewing (it’s a masochistic sort of fun), but in the meantime I’ll check out your book and just use that. Thanks Khan!


#5

If you can’t help yourself then that means you have to do it sometime. :slight_smile:

If you happen to have any questions regarding the book before buying it, I’ll be more than happy to help. I wouldn’t want anyone to be disappointed and like I said nothing can be for everyone. Having said that, I think you’ll like it. It clarifies a lot of questions people might have about ICRPG MAGIC, I think. At least that was one of my goals when writing the book.

Also take a look at these two forum threads below. I explained a lot of mechanics and the thinking behind most things. There are also some screenshots and table of contents.


EDIT: I forgot to say that your idea of CANTRIPS is almost exactly like mine! The only difference is, my cantrips don’t have levels. They are just cantrips.


#6

Just ordered the PDF on Drivethrurpg. I’m reading through it, and so far it’s a blast! I expect i’ll have questions/comments in the future, but the spell creation is so unique and fun. I hope you’ve sold a lot more copies since the book came out, you deserve it! And if you ever decide to make a physical book copy, I would definitely purchase that one as well.


#7

Hey, sorry for the late reply.

I was busy with some very important writing in the last couple of weeks and it is done as of yesterday (I’ll make a separate post about what it is but rest assured you’ll like it).

Thank you for your nice words and yes, the book sells a little each month so it is doing okay. I am not really concerned about sales even though more is always better but I have no objectsions to slow and steady. The most important thing for me is to create and share it with the fine folks who settled on ICRPG as their go-to system.

I have some great news for you: I’m going to design for physical copies (both soft and hardcover) in the coming months, so it is coming!

I’d like to hear your questions and comments. I can’t believe it’s been 12 days since your last post. Time flies…