ICRPG is a Classless system. Change my mind. (sips coffee)

#1

So I’ve been exploring the world of rules lite and alternative systems for sometime. ICRPG appeals to me on so many levels but the quest is never over.

I’ve recently discovered Knave by Ben Milton. If you are unfamiliar, It is legit classless and extremely OSR compatible. You should be able to run Knave characters through just about any osr style adventure with minimal tweaking. From the pdf:

Every PC is a Knave, a tomb-raiding, adventure-seeking ne’er-d-well who wields a spell book just as easily as a blade

Now this isn’t a commercial for Knave. But I was pretty enamored with the ideas there. I think it could use a bit more fleshing out personally.

So I was looking at ways to mesh the best parts of both Knave and ICRPG. Then it sort of occurred to me. ICRPG, despite having classes, is a classless system. There is nothing at all special about the classes themselves other than the “recommended” starting gear and milestone rewards. There is nothing preventing me from saying ANY PC can choose milestone rewards from any “class” presented in core.

Fast-forward a bit and I am reading Blood & Snow and come upon trumpet toots Character Tags. PING PING PING, light bulbs start going on.

THIS is what classless is! I am one of those that needs structure. Initially the ICRPG classes as they are wasn’t jiving for some reason and I couldn’t really put my finger on it. loot based leveling also is a mind warp for me, but thats a different story.

But the Tags… TAGS are the answer. What if… what if I took the core classes and made them Tags instead? You can still help a player realize their character vision through milestone rewards that compliment their tags.

This gets me the free-form I like in knave, combined with the mechanics of ICRPG that I like.

Now, B&S has been available for some time and I am sure I am not the first to think along these lines. Has anybody else reworked the system in this way? I’d be curious to see your takes on it.

Classes or Classless?
Hacking/Converting Numenera to ICRPG
#2

The core game invites players to envision a character concept first and then pick a starting class to begin. From there, I have always played ICRPG with the idea that players can choose ANY milestone at level-up time. So, if you want a Blade who can cast spells, go for it! If your character concept is eldritch-knight, you can totally be that. By all means, don’t feel constrained by the suggestions for milestones in the book. There aren’t any limits. Use the paths in Worlds, or jump around. Or pick epic loot instead. And then, have your players pick tags that also help them flesh out their characters. If you want, think in mechanical terms in terms of giving tags a mechanical advantage in game. There is nothing wrong with any of that. That’s why you can also use ICRPG to run any setting: superheroes, aliens, cyberpunk, Pirates, you name it.

#3

The versatility of the system is the biggest stregnth!

#4

Indeed! Me and my crew have always run classless. They are there for pure inspiration and boy have they been inspired.

#5

I’ve toyed with the idea of adding Cypher system’s Foci like this… A little bit extra fluff that conveys some mechanical use. Nothing game breaking but useful in some occasions. http://cypherguide.com/foci/

#6

Hey, that’s an awesome list and right in line with adding tags that have some mechanical importance. Really cool.

#7

I’ve also been toying with the idea of making some loot “Experience” with tags like Tomb Robber, Sticky Fingers, Merciless, Sawbones etc that grant bonuses under certain circumstances— they mark a character growing and shifting “class”.

#8

I think the system has class :wink:

#9

I wrote a little on how some of the mechanics and resources from Knave can be used in ICRPG Knave with ICRPG

#10

@Kreeba I have apparently reached my max on likes or something, so you should take this :herocoin: !

#11

Honestly I think Tags that featured in Blood&Snow (surely Weapon Tags too!) is the new IT for ICRPG anything-creation!
Weapons. Bioforms. Abilities. Vehicles. Monsters (already comes with them IMO). Hell even Magic!

#12

ICRPG Tags…so easy, even a slime cube can do it!
96
IMAGE © Runehammer

#13

ICRPG’s new Slogan!!!

#14

I fully support these messages. You both get a :herocoin:

#15

Ok so… I LOVE this idea, but let me first let you know about my personal experience with ICRPG progression/customization, how I handle it and how I see your TAGs idea blending into an already up’n’runnin’ game of mine so you get a little bit of perspective/pseudo-testing to get started!

So character creation at my table always starts like this:

  • I Describe the world that we play in, and present the adventure primer
  • I Handle my box full of printed minis to the players and say “pick one”, even monsters are allowed!
  • I Ask the players to distill their character concept into a 5-3 words sentence
  • I let them allocate stats and present/work out race choices with them
  • I ask the players to distill the idea even further into a single “class/archetype” concept
  • I let them pick starting loot as I choose/design their starting “class” item.
  • Done!

I have a homebrewed “xp” system inspired by dungeon world so when they “level up” I start a “micro quest” to give them their milestone reward (like finding a blacksmith to forge their meteorite sword). I let my players ask me for rewards that they find in the paths system, core classes and even other games! (Shadow of the Demon Lord, DCC and 5e are constant sources of reward ideas for my players). They also get a “modified” hero coin when they lvl up, which i call “destiny points”

What usually happens is that their character concept bounce around a lot between sessions, like a character that started as a “wizard” and ends up as a “druid”. So here is where I see your TAG idea shining, as an extension for the “distill your charaacter concept into a class” idea. For each “level up” they should write down a TAG for their character, which represents the aspect of their character that they want to explore for the duration of this level period.

Example?:

Class: Barbarian
TAGs (in lvling up order): Strong, unrelenting, intimidating, resourceful, tough…
Rewards (also in lvling up order): Strength Bracers, Second Wind Tattoo, Warchief’s Axe, Backpack of Supplying, Cloak of Endurance.

So more than a “classless” system, I see it like a “build your own class” thing, if that makes any sense :stuck_out_tongue:

#16

sniff I love this! I’m making it rain hero coins up in here! :herocoin:

#17

I never did like the idea of classes in rpg’s. I always imagine our life set in the genre and how we would behave. Would we for example as a guitar player never be allowed to play blues or rock if we chose jazz as our class as a guitarist? It makes little sense to me. A religious person who swings an axe or uses a whip to enforce the word of their god… they wear heavy armor and read from a random spell book they found one day. Why not? I know I would do that. Perhaps a wizard… plate armor and sword in hand because hey… dad raised me that way. I cast magic sure but I also stick the pointy end in things too. A being will do what they want to do and who says they can’t wear something, pick something up and swing it, read from a book or throw shiny stabby things I figure.

#18

I really find this concept fascinating! :slight_smile:

So to clarify based on your example, if I want to work at being a barbarian I choose “strong” as the tag (aka character aspect) I want to work on. Once I’ve worked on that tag for that “level” duration I am then rewarded with something like “Strength Bracers” which give me a stat benefit (e.g. +1 STR or EASY strength rolls) :question:

#19

One of ICRPG’s greatest strengths is that classes are presented as archetypes, paths you can follow if you so wish. You can always detour off the path at any time, of course.

#20

It makes sense from a “milestone” perspective. Before seeing this interpretation, I might have just given a bonus. Quick thoughts just using Nimlouth’s example:

Class: Barbarian
TAGs (in lvling up order): Strong (+1 Str), unrelenting (extra attack), intimidating (bonus to init), resourceful (I like usage die, so I might have this be ignore the first step down), tough (+AC)…
Rewards (also in lvling up order): Strength Bracers, Second Wind Tattoo, Warchief’s Axe, Backpack of Supplying, Cloak of Endurance.

But now I am looking to tack on the foci from Numenera/Cypher system. Those will absolutely confer some mechanical boons/banes. I kind of like Nimlouth’s ideas on TAGs.