Just an observation, but it seems way too easy to start play with a defence of 20. I like characters to be able to grow into a hero and not have a hero straight out of the gate. For example, I just made a dwarf and their Defence is 18 and I think I could have reached 20 with a bit of tinkering.
Mostly out of curiosity, how much of the defense is loot-based?
I ask because loot can be destroyed or lost. The GM can make monsters that rend armor or have high hit probability.
A 20 defense is cool but it’s not the end all be all. Sure a character can goblin slayer their way through mooks, but when the boss shows up and punts the goblin slayer across the room with a +8 to all rolls for Ultimate Effort that 20 defense won’t reduce damage.
And yes I am being hyperbolic. Point is; defense will only take a character so far. They need to be more that walking armor.
The pc has armour DEF +2 and a shield DEF +2. But that’s basic stuff as far as fantasy RPGs go. He also has CON +4 (3 base and 1 as a dwarf).
Master Edition Rules then (Con to DEF).
Ok so stacked on Con, means other stat challenges will be more difficult, and 18 is not that bad. Sure the monsters can hardly touch the character but depending on the Room Target the character may not be able to strike the monster. Couple that with the fact that the player character is limited to 1 Near Move and 1 Action they can get over whelmed quickly. I ran Doom Vault with a character that had a 16 or 17 DEF once the main offensive caster was taken out by a Roper the 5 fish folk mooks (5 hp +1 All rolls) went to town on the rest of the party. It ended as a TPK.
My point is the DEF stat is not as much of a concern as you might think. I though the same as you before I ran Finnegan’s Pride the boss monster had a +6 or +8 to all rolls meaning on average I was going to connect with a PC. The monster would only have failed the attack roll on a 4, but the players in that game won the day through better tactics and use of powerful magic they sent the boss to the sky with a portal when the monster charged them. Took a few rounds to learn the monsters capabilities and tactics but they succeeded.
I’d totally forgotten about the bonuses to hit some opponents will have. Perhaps I should read a few adventures to see how things are.
And, it’s not like you can’t have a level 1 fighter in Basic Fantasy Roleplaying with an AC of 21! Platemail 17, Shield 1, Dex 18/+3. Unlikely, but absolutely possible.
You’ve convinced me.
Glad to have shared my experience and happy to have you among the shield wall.
Great advice here. Also, I had a character with 20 AC who couldn’t pass a simple Dex check, and against any sort of saving throw, that character was exposed. He nearly died from a simple snake: make a dex check to avoid the strike. For three rounds, his hands and face were covered in bites. Lol
In any event, if someone wants to make a tank with 20 AC to be the hero of the party, that’s epic! Everyone will thank them. But the first enemy with a warhammer that destroys armor will be a fateful day.
Also, I find Int is usually a dump stat for these folks, and it’s all fun and games until they encounter a mage with mind control (make an int save to avoid), and now that 20 AC tank is rampaging against the party.
There are plenty of monster abilities that deal damage or effects if a required stat roll like DEX or CHA fails. This could be particularly effective with a higher room target. You can also put the characters in dangerous situations were they must make stat rolls other than CON or DEFENSE. There is always wrecking or losing loot (including armor). There’s always coming up with monster abilities or loot (used on the PCs) on your own that bypass armor. Plenty of options to go with here.
Something that I do is cap the stats for new characters at 3 (including life form stats) so things don’t get out of hand (this also leaves room for improvement later on). This could help keep the AC a bit lower to start. Also, you can always limit what equipment characters start with if some of the armor doesn’t sit well with you.
Oooh, and sometimes you have enemies with buffs where they simply just ignore armor. In those cases, only your con bonus helps you.
That’s a good one Alex! I can picture some kind of shock wave or maybe even a billowing cloud of necrotic gas.
Do you allow Loot to raise the +3 limit?
I would. Something that a lot of us in the Moldy Crew do is roll stats at random, so you don’t have to worry about someone putting 6 points in Con or Str or Dex. So, we typically roll 6D6 for stats and 4D5 for effort bonuses.
In order, you have:
If you rolled 6D6, you might get:
So, with a 6, 4, 1, 3, 5, 1, your character would have 2 points in Strength (because a 1 came up twice), 0 Dex, 1 in Con, 1 in Int, 1 in Wis, and 1 in Cha.
And then you’d just repeat that exercise for Effort.
Ah yes, I think Knave does very similar. I like that.
I don’t think there is much starting loot that raises the stats out of the gate. Once the characters start adventuring any loot or milestone that raises a stat has no restriction.
Do you mean 4d5 for Effort bonuses?
Yeah, 4D5 for Effort. Little typo, hehe.
I run 10d12
9 GUN (or DEF is running 2e)
11 Player’s Choice
yes it makes for far more random character ideas but it challenges the players creativity to see what they get.
Yes! I meant 4D5!!! lol