Formless Magic [Updated]

#12

Hey @glocke , are you still using a formless system? If so, what have you learned or how have you perfected it?

#13

I too have utilized mana for magic. I do use a different amount other than 10. I use an Intelligence x3= mana amount being that intelligence is the ability score I use for casting magic. Wisdom if it’s devout magic. I also use the rule where once mana is at 0, the caster can continue however they do so using HP’s so ultimately they can kill themselves by casting. One added rule I have is regarding doing damage. They always roll d10 for damage but can increase the amount of damage by spending mana points. Say they roll an 8 for damage and have 32 mana. They can, if they want… add all 32 points to the 8 for a 40 point blaster of a spell. This puts the weight on them to “budget” their mana and consider what is still ahead or save it all for the big bad end fight and really lay into that one. I also have spells cost 3 mana instead of 1 to cast. They roll a d20 each casting only to see if they roll a 1. No other result matters. If a 1 comes up, the mana is spent and the spell fizzles out. I don’t bother with wild magic and that stuff nor do I concern myself with schools. A magic user can learn any spell of any kind except those that require a god to provide the energy to cast and vice versa. A devout magic user cannot cast regular spells from spell books or scrolls… they channel their spells from their god.

#14

Hey there! Just wanted to throw in my own formless magic system I’ve used with good success. Verbs Only Power Words.

The Lore:
All magic in the world stems from the use of Ancient Words of Power. All known Ancient Words are verbs, action words. Many scholars & sages believe the Ancient Language consisted only of verbs. Others contend that nouns & such must exist and are the keys to great magical power. Many wizards & adventurers have spent their lives in fruitless searching.

The Mechanics:
Players can learn up to two words per Intelligence with the words counting against their equipment limit. Ancient Words require objects to be acted upon.

Ancient Words I’ve used:
Bind, Flow, Soar, Grow, Turn, Whisper, Fold, Shout, Gather, Conceal, Twist, Illuminate, Scatter.

Ultra Rare Milestone Loot that only exists conceptually, not actually table tested yet: the prefixes ‘Un-’ and ‘Re-’.

Rule of the Candle:
As the light of a candle dims the further away you are, so to does magic dim over distance. (Magic gets harder as the desired effects get further away). As a leaf is easier to burn than a log, so to is magic easier on small objects (Magic is harder as the desired effect gets bigger or more complicated).

At the table, magic is really fun & creative. Players have their Words (even the fighter with low Int can pick up one or two) and can use items in their inventory or the environment. And the easy to remember rule of the Candle.

Quick Examples:
Bind is used to heal minor wounds.
Twist plus some sticks has been used to pick a lock.
Soar plus a leaf has been used to send a message.
Shout plus Wait plus a thrown rock has been used to lure a guard away from a door.
Grow plus some vines has been used to create a ladder.

Cheers!

#15

Would you be willing to share said table.

I really love this concept, very much reminiscent of LeGuin’s Earthsea magic system.

#16

I actually think THIS is pretty much as esrthsea-ish as you can get haha amazing rule uncle ben, and also super light!

#17

This is my current version, @W3stoner ; feel free to revise and expand to add your own. It’s not perfect, and occasionally the combinations can get a little weird (albeit still workable), but so far it has worked pretty well.

ELEMENTS (1)
11 FIRE
12 COLD
13 AIR
14 WATER
15 EARTH
16 WOOD
17 LIGHTNING
18 ACID

ACTIONS (2)
21 PROJECTION
22 EXPLOSION
23 MOVEMENT
24 CONFIGURATION
25 GROWTH
26 DIMINUTION
27 UNION
28 DIVISION

EVOCATIONS (3)
31 CONJURATION
32 CONTROL
33 TRANSLOCATION
34 PROTECTION
35 EVOLUTION
36 DEVOLUTION
37 ENCHANTMENT
38 NECROMANCY

FORMS (4)
41 STRUCTURE
42 BEAST
43 PLANT
44 CIRCLE
45 SPHERE
46 MISSILE
47 WALL
48 CLOUD

INTERACTIONS (5)
51 COMMUNICATION
52 PASSAGE
53 COMBINATION
54 THOUGHT
55 CONSTRUCTION
56 DESTRUCTION
57 MODIFICATION
58 ENTROPY

UNIVERSALS (6)
61 TIME
62 ENERGY
63 GRAVITY
64 DIMENSION
65 FORCE
66 OBLIVION
67 ELDRITCH
68 SPIRIT

PERCEPTIONS (7)
71 SIGHT
72 TOUCH
73 TASTE
74 SMELL
75 SOUND
76 PSYCHIC
77 ASTRAL
78 ILLUSION

MISCELLANEOUS (8)
81 STRENGTH
82 WEAKNESS
83 HEALING
84 POISON
85 LIGHT
86 DARKNESS
87 ATTRACTION
88 REPULSION

Example:

Four random D8 rolls of 6, 2, 3, and 6

Power words are ENERGY (62) and DEVOLUTION (36)

Spells I would consider exploring with the casting player with this combination would include a diverse list of ICRPG analogues to D&D 5e’s Chaos Bolt, Enervation, Power Word: Pain, Power Word: Stun, Primal Savagery, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shatter, and probably others—all cast at a cost of around 2 HP (to use two power words) at my table. It’s formless magic, so I’m slightly more open to negotiation than I might be with a priori researched spell creation, while still following general guidelines for effects. HTH.

#18

Hey thanks! The biggest advantage to this system for me has been my players interaction with the world. Their Power Words need objects to act on, so they ask lots of weirdly specific questions like:

  • What kind of forest are we in? Are their pine cones on the ground?
  • We’re in a market place, what sorts of things are for sale that blow easily in the wind?
  • What is this building made out of? (… It’s made of wood but if you destroy the innkeepers inn, there is a zero percent chance he’s gonna reward you for this quest!)

It really rewards thinking about & interacting with the game world/people!

#19

not really, sorry :smiley:

#20

This was a really inspired read for me. I’ve always wanted to have a magic system with elements described here and after discovering ICRPG I feel like I can actually tackle it. Here is my VERY ROUGH first draft of a system drawing inspiration from the content in this thread, Maze Rats, Freebooters on the Frontier, Ars Magica, Dungeons and Dragons, and years of thinking about magic. If you do decide to read through it I’d love to know what your thoughts are. Thanks!

#21

I think this looks pretty good. My concern over the formless magic has been that it interrupts the flow of play, and allows the caster to dominate table time. I talked about a possible solution to negotiating the spell at the table here (which is crafting the spells between sessions): Spellcrafting and Words of Power

#22

Hey @Baron_Sandshrew, good stuff there! I like how you have the various words interacting & the power levels.

One thing I noticed was a lot of ‘negotiate with the GM for how this works’ - I think putting some more thought to how things play out at the table (from both player & GM point of view) could really you out.

#23

That’s great feedback. I’m adding some advice in the next draft on how to solidify some ‘bread and butter’ spells that are used regularly to smooth that out. The arcane mage knows they can use the words ‘arcane’ and ‘missile’ to deal magic effort to a single target or basic effort to up to 4 targets. No discussion, just two known applications. If they want to use that combination of words for something new then a discussion would have to come up. This is also why I’ve never attempted this before ICRPG. These conversations could be long even with a relatively lean system like ICRPG, it could be ages to iron things like this out in a denser system.

#24

Thank you for the specific positive feedback and considerations. I get a similar ‘wishy washy’ sort of feeling from re-reading this draft. I am working on solidifying a default system and presenting it more clearly at the front of the document. I still want to maintain some of the alternate takes but am trying to parse them out and consolidate them in the ‘alternate rules’ section to streamline the process for groups that want a system that just works out of the box. Again, really appreciate the input!

#25

You’re welcome! It’s a bit long (1 hour) but this video about designing board game rules helped me a lot in figuring out how to write things out in a good way.

#26

Updated version

I took in some of that feedback and tried to clarify the mechanics, expand on the examples, and added a bit of loot.

#27

Much better! Well done!

#28

I’ll look it over but there is a lot of promise in this.

#29

Thank you very much! I posted a more complete 1.0 version in a new thread.

Based on the feedback I’ve received over the process I’m challenging myself to streamline the terminology and refine the mechanics even further. I just finished a plain text draft of the revised system stripped of examples and author interjections. I want to make sure my rules are concise and understandable at their most basic. I want examples and diagrams to enhance understanding and inspire creativity, not be necessary to comprehend the system. I hope to post that version soon for feedback.

Thank you to everyone who had taken time to read and comment on this project!

#30

This makes me think about what a conversion of the Dragon Shouts from Skyrim would look like in ICRPG.

#31

This is a super cool idea!

I’m thinking pretty hard about trying to build a class type based around this. I think it would be so fun to play around with.