That’s cool. You’re lucky your players are willing to buy the books, even as PDFs. In my experience most players don’t feel the need to. Well, except the hardcore players.
I usually make my Players buy the new Games they want to try First unless it is something I also am keen to get into. If it is something I want them to try and they are on the Fence then it is on me to provide. Mind you we ALL look at the absurdly ‘expanded’ Systems and just back away slowly when it comes to buying into the ‘Big Boys’.
Just adding an answer no one else has. Perhaps they just like D&D.
That is quite possible of course.
There is one other option though, which I’ve seen happen in my group. I had enough with D&D and told the group that I won’t be DMing it anymore and if they want to continue playing someone else had to step up. As expected no one did. So I offered them to play ICRPG instead but they balked at the idea. You see, they like crunch in their game and prefer more complexity, which is totally fine. Different strokes for different folks.
Finally I convinced them to try ICRPG. One of the players outright rejected the idea and didn’t join. After the session they said “Meh, it’s okay but we prefer D&D”. We tried playing Savage Worlds, same thing happend. “Meh, it’s okay but we prefer D&D”. But the funny thing is, we had the most fun at the table in years playing ICRPG and Savage Worlds. Everybody was laughing and it was fast and it was exciting but to my amazement they simply didn’t notice this. In their minds they like crunch but in reality playing D&D doesn’t make them and us happy. We have a lot of arguments at the table when playing D&D. People are more serious and they put mechanics over everything else and so on.
Stockholm Syndrome perhaps…
New DM here…I am in the process of starting a family game - wife, brother, 2 kids… Wife never really played and everyone else fairly newbie, so I thought ICRPG. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of asking what system to use (Will not do that again if I think I know what they need). Everyone didn’t care, except my son. He had played just a very little ICRPG when I was first trying to figure it out and he insisted that he had to play D&D (couldn’t get a clear reason out of him except maybe something to do with level progression). So we picked D&D…last night started making characters…still not done after 2-3 hour session. Trying hard not to be too upset with my son. Also, trying to figure out a good way to get some type of level progression for him in ICRPG (which it looks like MAGIC might have), but still not sure his exact reasoning. Maybe after we play awhile with D&D, I can get him to switch after pointing out issues (privately to him) as we play.
So maybe this will help, maybe not: your milage may vary.
For my part the difficulty choosing between D&D and ICRPG would be that they feel so similar world-wise. The only difference is that D&D has years of legacy and detail behind it and a much more robust system. ICRPG shuns that stuff like it’s a bad thing. It revels in its bare bones nature. But that’s not for everyone. Certainly it wouldn’t sell me.
My Solution? Don’t run a D&D flavored game with it. Start with one of the other two settings–something they absolutely couldn’t get in a core D&D game, something that feels fresh and original. Warp Shell or Ghost Mountain. If they associate the ruleset with that cool Wild West world with gunslinger skeletons and demons on a floating purgatory continent or that crazy far future game with the TARDIS ships that look like flying crabs and the weird suns that shine mutation energy on everything and the crazy vikings in cryofreeze in the service of ancient gods of violence they may be less hung up on what system is getting used and just want to play that crazy setting with the cool art cards.
Then again there’s folks where all they want from life is fantasy dungeon crawls. So yeah. But that sales pitch would work on folks like me! It’s why I like the game.
I love all the great advice on here. I am a new DM and all the rules of D&D are a lot to handle for my head. I have a few of the books and I enjoy the system (honestly, having rules and boundaries is something I really enjoy), but I want to run something more light weight and not rooted. I have played a few rounds of No Thank You, Evil! with my daughter and wife and they both enjoyed it. Similar to ICRPG, the dice and damage are simplified. All weapons role the same (damage isn’t rolled, it is locked at 1 hp per hit), monsters only have 4-5 hp. The loot acts as feats - allowing quick travel or summoning assistance from NPCs. My daughter loved the creativity of making up her attacks as she played, which is where I think the ICRPG system shines as there aren’t rules stating how/when each character can use abilities.
Right now, I plan on integrating the heart system into my current D&D game for monsters. I would also love to integrate milestones as apposed to levels - keep combat quick and deadly. I may even use the feats from D&D as milestones for characters instead of level ups.
I like the idea of having milestones predetermined for how a character will progress. Cuts down on players taking up session time to read up on how they can level up their character. I find this to be a pain point at my table that I have yet to find a good solution for, but also a discussion for another thread.
Not to add too much to it, though I will, but ICRPG is a toolset, you can play anything with it. Nothing says you can’t add your favorite elements of anything. In fact it is encouraging you to do so. Loot, is not loot, damage is not damage. Loot is a progression damage aka effort is effectiveness.
Personally I am looking at running it with dice pools. But have not zeroed in on the method.
That said, published material is a guide or marker. Role playing comes from the players, the GM gives interesting moments.
If players don’t like the randomness of “loot” give them build points or cash that they can trade in for what they want. 5+attribute=cost 5=level 1 spell 10= level 2…to increase role playing, the points paid give them the chance to acquire said loot/spell/artifact/boon/skill/implant/power in the next adventure/session. Make it straight forward but not easy.
ICRPG takes RPG systems to its base, gives it raw and uncluttered, you get to add all the clutter you want to make it feel like home. It is a framework that is playable. It even has heart and tempo. You want to add distinctions between gun types, go for it. It’s not hard just don’t make items over powered.
Effort is the mechanism for everything, Your party is at a gala trying to persuade the patrons to give $2500000 to their charity as opposed to the 2 other charities.
This is where I go off the rails in the traditional had too much to drink to be posting.
Timers is how long each character has to persuade each board members of the trust to give to your charity. Each character can only engage each trusty once before the trustee is bored.
Your opposing charities use 2 simple Ai systems, all on one trustee per timer cycle and the other opponent is one of their members per trust board member at a time. It takes 50 points of effort to lock a trustee to vote for a charity. Players don’t know who is locked in, and they can interrupt the opposing charities with effort on a one to one scale. “Oh, Charles, are you still beating your children when they don’t bring home an A on their report card” 1d8 against Charles effort or 1d12 if it’s true or the rumor say it is.
At the end of the gala the trustees vote, awarding the money.
Locked in trustees are locked those that never got locked goes to whomever got the most points with them in a single timer cycle.
That is 100% ICRPG and almost all role playing. Clever tactics can keep trust board members from being locked by opponents, but your team needs to lock some or the opponents will win specially the AI that group attacks.
Spending time talking to assistants or learning about the trustees might make rolls easy, not knowing something about them might make rolls hard. Some might be intimidated, some bribed with a show of skin, others put off by begging for money and just want an interesting conversation.
This system is the system I wish I had 20 years ago. It took a mad genius to come up with it. Since a corporate group could not, it just lacks the polish a corporate group can add. So we as GMs need to think a bit outside the box, but not add too much work to planning, we just go with the flow the players give us and where the muses take us.
Off topic but - I was pondering shifting to 2d10 and working with PbtA style failure / success at cost / success system! Glad to see others feel the system is flexible enough to tinker
Some thoughts: Leveling can be a powerful draw, as it provides an objective (if abstracted) measure of character development, giving a strong sense of connection and involvement within a world.
1.) In ICRPG Worlds there are Milestone Paths which offer excellent structure for thematic power development (as well as providing a template for other paths you might think up).
2.) Check out I miss levels and experience… but there’s a solution! for ideas for including leveling in a way that’s consistent with the design aesthetic of ICRPG.
Between these two, I think you can render a satisfying progress of character through leveling in ICRPG.
Thanks for the heads up.
This is awesome I took at the liberty of sharing it on my F.B RPG’s In D4-00 group
and in one of the I.C RPG F.B groups
I love your idea a hack of alot
Just because they are not using the rules in a book does not mean a book is wasted! Inspiration is still there to be had, ideas can be stolen. There is no such thing as a wasted book purchase.
This! A feat can become a Loot!
You know who likes “crunchy games”? Players who NEVER HAVE and NEVER WILL dm. That’s who.