Suitable for one shots, not so much for campaigns?

#14

As a bit of encouragement, let me say that I met my first group of online players here — well, back on the old Google Plus group. I played with those guys for a while before morphing into a new group, also guys I met on G+. We played for several years before that group fell apart. And it was somewhat crushing for me. But a friend reminded me that if you don’t have players, new ones are just around the corner. And he was so right. So I started looking for players here on the Runehammer forums. I now have two core groups that I play with, and I am super lucky to have such great DMs and gamers in my life.

Some of it was luck, and some of it was because I got out of my comfort zone and started running games with strangers. And then I slowly started to meet folks who shared my same values. And then from there we were able to form a group of folks who truly enjoy playing together.

In the case of luck, I blind invited this guy named Joe to a new campaign I was starting up — I had seen his posts here and thought he seemed like a thoughtful dude, so I just asked him if he wanted to play. And now, after all this time, I count Joe as one of my closest friends.

So, it might take a little bit of work and a little bit of luck, but I truly believe a solid gaming group is right around the corner for you. You just have to stick with it a little. But do know that these forums are a great place to find like-minded folks if you’re willing to put yourself out there a little bit.

#15

The pure fact of how much I can make up on the fly and still keep everyone on the same page makes ICRPG exceptionally useful for long campaigns. I don’t grow weary of digging through stat blocks or trying to string pre made campaigns together just to keep things going. I don’t have to stop mid game and think of how I’m going to deal with the choices my players made; I just go with it. Not to mention the hundreds of random encounter, monster, npc and dungeon rollers that are available if I ever get in a pinch. The systems fluidity and flexibility makes it wonderful to keep the steam going.

This is my fourth year running three simultaneous,interconnected games for over twenty students 2-3 times a week in which what they do by the end of the year effect the world of next school years campaign all with the use of ICRPG. I’m not even sure I’d manage a short term d&d campaign with these kids and I think my head would explode running a one shot pathfinder.

That said this is just my experience, and it may differ greatly for you. I like not being restrained by as many rules and work much better with “guidelines”. I hate when games get too “mathy” and this keeps all the number small, manageable and consistent ( I LOVE that each die does one specific thing) I play enough to have a good feel of how many hearts a monster should have (if any, sometimes I keep it going till right before it stops being fun) and what kind of abilities/ stats it would have (if I plan any to begin with) most of which aren’t overly complicated.

I think it’s a great system for one shots since you can make a fun quick encounter in no time, but I think what makes running one shots great only multiples when running a long campaign.

#16

I’m of mixed feelings here.

As the mechanics stand. With 2.5/QuickStart 2 you will max out your characters progression at something like 120 natural 20s. Assuming 1.5 per session averaged?
We all have crap rolling games and high rolling games.

That said, I don’t think progression is the goal. A good story, and a good time is the goal.

All that said, as written icrpg 2 is not enough for a 200 session campaign on its own. But probably 20~60 with little difficulty.

The time sinks of economy, encumbrances, travel…
All boring and bothersome aspects…but I do miss economics for longer games.

The real issue is adapting a story that is fulfilling to play in every week. And Runehamer in all it’s multimedia aspects offers that in spades, if your goal is high adrenaline action over and over. With plenty of shortcuts and cool thoughts to help you on your way.

Tone it down, and it requires a bit more DIY. Tone it down to contacts and subtle intrigue and it requires more DIY.

D&D offers players rewards for 300ish sessions. Call of Cthulhu for 10 or so, but better at 3 to 6.

Again, not saying that D&D doesn’t have its place, but I’m bored typically after level 5. And combat gets boring to me around Round 4.
Planning and schemes will keep me entertained for hours, but sometimes I just want to kill goblins.

I also think most stories are best told in 50ish hours. But D&D is typically played in arcs of 20ish hours (4 to 6 sessions)

So if you are going for a story that is that huge…and you need your characters to go from stable boy to gods kings at the end of 200~300 hours…D&D has a decent easy to follow guide. If you are wanting to tell a different story, and apply some DIY mechanics. ICRPG is a very decent rule set.

#17

I don’t know where you find the people with the time and the dedication for a campaign longer than ICRPG can support.

So this conversation to me reads like some strawman has put his cart before his horse.

#18

Hence my actually talking hours of play…

You are very right, who has the time. But I have friends who make the time, though they have restarted campaigns around 20 sessions in. But 6 hours every week except around the holidays is doable. Just hard.

#19

I’m about to hit Three hour session number 14 with generally the same characters. But will be wrapping it up soon and pulling back the scope to see that this campaign has been a VR Game played by some Altered State cyber punks.

But there’s no reason we could not continue in this storyline with these characters for another 12 or 13.

ICRPG supports Low admin role playing in any style and for any length of game.

The reason I mentioned a strawman argument in my post above is that the original poster has conflated concepts. At least it seems as if OP does not recognize that progression is an independent variable from long campaign.

If he had come on here making the argument that any role playing game system does not support The false God of limitless extended progression, I agree.

And then I would dig up that link where hankerin Lays it on the line about progression and why he did ICRPG the way he did.

#20

Thanks Alex, I’m sure you’re right. I’ve been part of several clubs and groups, offline and online, so I’m used to meeting new people, and I normally make new friends quite easily. I did put the feelers out on the ICRPG FB group, I should do the same here. I quite fancy running a game, but that would be a big step, as it would be my first, so I would need an understanding group. As long as the first game was at least fun, I would count it as a success.

#21

Not to rehash all these lumpy heads. I have been playing RPG’s since 1979 and played so many systems I have forgotten more than I remember I think.

Any system is agnostic to campaign length. It is what you make of it. I introduced my gaming group to ICRPG with a 5 room dungeon (I posted here on this forum). We had so much fun they wanted to keep playing. So a few random encounters and some experimentation, 8 months in we played the first Age of Snakes session last week.

I think it is unfair to make a generalization about any system. I think ICRPG’s simplicity lends itself well to one shots and introduction to the rpg world, I think that is more a function of speed of character creation, but there are no barriers to long term campaigns.

Some of you older lumpy heads like me might remember TFT (The Fantasy Trip and Wizards). That system was D6 based and you only had three attributes STR, Dex and Int. And each book was a 20 page pamphlet. Back in the day, we played a two year campaign.

At the end of the day, create collaboratively with the players and have fun in the system that gets you there.

#22

Well said @Dragonlair.

#23

ICRPG has a massive advantage over other systems when it comes to running one shots(prep time being the big winner), but none of this advantage comes at the expense of campaign utility.

Not to repeat many of the excellent points above, but if all else fails consider this: a campaign is a bunch of one shots.

#24

You may be right, but at the moment (gut reaction) I am not sure I can disagree more with the statement.

It’s like saying a novel is no more than a bunch of short stories. While true at its most base, very wrong when talking about good novels.

That said, many campaigns and novels have too much filler and should simply have been shorter stories.

That said I am getting sick of 15 book stories that are just about the bad guy/calamity of the week. When the story has already been told.

Trilogy’s are about my length. Or translated 70ish hours of reading. A good campaign is probably the same, you might revisit the characters again later.

While there is no disadvantage for quick character creation. There is no advantage to it if your group plays 10~50 session story lines, where flexibility and depth might add something.

Hero system and savage worlds come to mind with session 0 being about character creation as much as anything.
Once characters are made, the systems are simple.
But honestly not my flavor at this point.

#25

I don’t think I disagree with any of your points. A novel isn’t a bunch of short stories, but it does have chapters that isolate consumable events/narratives.
A campaign that has the party hunt down and fight a ‘big bad’ every session would get old sometime during the second session(especially for experienced gamers). But there is something each session should have, namely a dramatic arc, whether it takes the form of a battle, espionage, or obtaining a crucial piece of info, etc. Those individual arcs/sessions are very similar for the DM as far as how the table is run. They have identifiable progression of some sort that ideally requires, or at least involves, the contribution of each PC.

I believe that every advantage ICRPG lends to one shots also applies to campaigns. I honestly wasn’t implying anything more than that.

And of course, none of those points apply to a session zero. You’ve got me there. It never crossed my mind.

buys shots of Tullamore Dew for the house

#26

I’m throwing my two cents at this to say that YOU CAN have a campaign made of a series of one-shots (autoconclusive chapters), but for it to be a campaign it would also need some kind of long-term development of some plot, characters, lore, etc. Warp Shell i.e is basically Star Trek meets guardians of the galaxy for me.

When you prep for a one-shot, you don’t take anything exterior to the session into consideration. A series of one-shots then, only make a campaign if they are all inter-connected and for each one-shot you consider either the same setting (changed by the previous sessions) or the same characters…

#27

I think all you folks chiming in about story structure have missed the point.

Getting back to the original topic of whether ICRPG is better suited for one-shots or campaigns, the point is that mechanically, a campaign really is just a series of one-shots tied together by story elements. I run three maps a session, whether I am running one or 30 sessions. If I string enough of those together, I have a campaign (story elements aside). All I have to add in mechanically is steady progression during and in between sessions, and I have a campaign.

Crafting a decent story, with a good hook, a good plot, dramatic elements, character development, dramatic tension, resolution, and denouement, that’s a huge topic for another post.

In terms of what has to happen mechanically, ICRPG is perfectly well-suited to running campaigns. Indeed, again, perhaps better suited because it keeps the numbers small.

#28

Hey all,

This is a topic that seems to come up every few months, and after quietly reading the majority of those posts I think I’ve finally nailed what the core issue is.

Codified Rules.

In the absence of specific, explicit rules for long-term progression, some people conclude that the system is not designed for that. Whether you are correct or not depends on what you define as “long-term”, as many have noted.

There are no hard-written, codified rules for when, how, where, and why you provide progression to your players because the spirit of ICRPG is the DIY aspect of gaming. “You and your group will know when.”

That trust, from designer to gamemaster, can be jarring when compared to something like 5th edition which is very explicit about what everyone gets, when they get it, how they get it, and why they get it.

ICRPG’s greatest strength is the lack of damage/hp/ability bloat. There is no significant BURDEN on the GM to play at high levels as compared to lower levels (or tiers, etc.). This means the GM can play more, and work less, which leads naturally to longer and more numerous campaigns/games/sessions. And it means you can get wild with your progression and your DESIGN because it’s so finely tuned. It’s okay if your warrior does insane damage - fill the room with lava and ask them what they do. Oh, and they have d4 turns to figure it out.

Twotricks, my sincerest advice to you is as follows: Get a group together, make some characters that feel cool to you, and do away with the illusion of “balance” and unified progression. Let your players be cool - they are not competing against each other like in a wargame. Give them great power, and take it away. Force them to reclaim what they lost, or find something new. That is the power of LOOT based progression.

As a final note, I’ve been playing without loot based progression, instead using normal abilities and powers, since ICRPG came out. It works fine. Roll your dice out in the open, and you’ll see that the bones are a cruel, and sadistic god.

AC

#29

I love this discussion!!!

As to Original Post: ICRPG QUICKSTART 2 provides everything needed progression wise for a standard type of long play table top RPG.

As to ICRPG strengths…

  1. Quick character creation
  2. Incredible flexibility both built in and as a DIY game.
  3. Basic D20 mechanics that are intuitive to learn, and most already familiar with RPGs won’t have trouble with.
  4. Very GM friendly!
  5. Effort!!!
  6. Timers!
  7. Light cognitive load.

None of those detract from long form campaign playing! But they shine in one offs and or short run games.

Is it end all be all??? Probably not, many other indi games have hit that note recently. But ICRPG is probably the best package from a DIY perspective, at least in the ones I have been following.

I am currently enamored with the into the odd system…it hits my 4 rounds of combat note quite well. But DIY for it is not as well explained.

#30

@Paxx

“… it hits my 4 rounds of combat note quite well.”

Colour me curious! please elaborate. And if warranted in a new thread.

#31

I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I have an observation I didn’t see already covered. Apologies if I missed it in someone’s reply, there are some lengthy responses here.

I think to a certain extent, the premise here is somewhat flawed. The question of “is ICRPG less suited to long campaigns?” seems to assume that it is common for gamers to play long campaigns. For 5e at least, we know that most people are not playing long campaigns, with only a small number of players making it past level 10.

I would bet most groups in any system are not playing long campaigns.

If you consider a long campaign as one in which the players play the same group of characters, I would even argue that tabletop RPGs in general are not suited to long campaigns. With danger and death as a central component, character death should be the limiting factor on campaign length.

But if you consider a campaign as just a connected world and story, then there’s no reason that any one system would be better or worse in facilitating long term play. Those aspects are really dependent on how long the GM and players stay interested.

#32

@Paxx @Dragonlair

Yes! I have also been loving Into the Odd as well.

In fact, I’ve been putting together a little booklet/hack of Into the Odd and the initial version of Maze Rats for my players.

I was thinking of posting it to this forum, and now that I’ve heard some interest I definitely will. It uses the Into the Odd SRD, so it has all the rules you would need to play. Folks can try out the system and then pick up the Into the Odd book if they like it and want that original content.

#33

This post warmed my heart. It really did. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

P.S.: I just ordered my copy of ICRPG. Unfortunately I was only able to afford the softcover. But man! I am sooo excited. I can not wait to play with my friends, family. I hope the superhero one-shot I have planned will turn into a mini campaign. Wish me luck :slight_smile: