Roll Under?

question
#1

I ran a quick impromptu C&S game a couple of nights ago and after a pretty fun night of learning and mayhem a player of mine brought to my attention that she feels like the “Roll Under” system seems gimmicky since the math is the same backward.

i.e., a basic Muscle skill level 3 is no different from rolling your normal DC of 18-20. She said it felt counterintuitive to roll normally for DMG, but when it comes to skill checks, why roll under? She also says that reading a 20 as a “Critical Fail” and a 1 as a “Critical Success” feels weird.

I responded that to my understanding the skill levels range from 3-18 and you roll under because that’s how the numbers read.

I would like to know what everyone else thinks about the roll-under system. :grin:

#2

Depends on where you come from. I never played D&D and started with a d100 roll under system - so, it feels natural to me.

Roll over? Just a different concept, that’s all.

#3

In my humble opinion, it’s simply a matter of how the narrative aligns with the dice roll. To me, rolling under can make sense too… as you’re keeping the result under your skill or capacity, which feels like ‘this is within my skill set, and the task didn’t exceed my character’s capabilities.

Does that make sens to you ?

#4

I love roll under, because your skill is your target. No math, no bonuses… Your target number is on your sheet, all you gotta do is roll at or under that number. Inverted crits and fumbles is weird, but you can get used to it.

#5

It makes sense to me. I just never thought of it the way my player brought it up to me. :sweat_smile:

#6

If the player cannot accept this answer or can’t wrap their mind around this; discuss with the group and include a new column to math out what the players will need to roll:

Skill at 7 must (roll 21 - 7) 14+

Godbound had the same set up for their Attribute Tests (It uses the D&D 6 main stats).
It’s almost silly to do additional work, but if they want all high numbers all the time, you can just translate it.

#7

Yeah no need for the extra work, but if my PCs need this to be flipped I will use this formula that you’ve provided here, thank you!

#8

I’ve found that people prefer roll over. Maybe it’s a carryover from D&D. It does feel odd that you are rolling for how difficult the task is and not how successful your attempt is. But, roll under is less math and it’s all the same at the end of the day. There is some logic in taking the option that is less mathy.

#9

I think of it as the task being WITHIN your Skill training/Knowledge.

#10

Yeah so there’s no harm in flipping the math. Personally, I would keep everything the same and just invert the skill values. So to buy a skill, you still spend at least 3 Hero Points, and your minimum investment buys you a skill of 18 (roll 18+ to succeed). Then you can buy that skill lower with additional HP, to a minimum value of 3 (Fail on a 1 or 2).

I haven’t run any C&S, soni don’t know if that would make some of the loot and bonuses feel weird, but the math should work out the same.

I’ve considered running ICRPG with roll-over stats done this way. I wouldn’t need to set any Room Targets, and players could just roll stuff right off their sheets. Streamlining math out of the game is really cool in my book :laughing:

#11

If you use a Room Target of 12 for every scene, it is the same as rolling under. I think it is just personal preference, because with roll under you need to come up with a new mechanic for harder tasks and tests, e.g. lowering your skill by 2 or 3.

#12

Yeah, EASY/HARD still work, you just have to flip the bonuses.

Essentially, you’d have 3 “Targets” equalling 9, 12, and 15. Then your Stats give you your specific targets. If I we’re gonna do this with ICRPG, I’d probably do roll-over, but change the Stats to be the Targets. So each base Stat is 12, and you get 6 points subtract from those base numbers.

The problem with roll-over your stat… Is that lower stats are now better :laughing: so it’s always something.