How much Supply can occupy each slot?

#1

Looking at the old threads here and doing a “find” search on the Master’s Edition PDF for SUPPLY, I’m not finding a solid answer.

Without anything clear, it must mean it’s up to the GM? So how many supply can occupy a loot slot in your campaigns? 1 for 1? 5 for 1? I generally devote 1 line in carried for supply and it all goes there. Interested in your thoughts.

General comment: There is an old reference to GM rolling for supplies needed on a long journey in Core - I’m reading 2e Core, it ain’t there. I cannot find that in anything beyond Master’s Edition’s “Blood & Snow”. For something that’s kind of essential to Ghost Mountain and traveling through Alfheim you’d think it would be found in a more prominent position.

SUPPLY in practice (does anyone actually use it?)
#2

Like you, I have had issues with how to use Supply. It was poorly laid out in 2e and most of the rules for it are tucked into the Blood and Snow section of Master Ed. I really wish it had been well explained in the basic rules section, it would save a lot of time and aggravation.

Since Supply = enough food and assorted essentials needed for a party of 4 to get through one day, I give it two slots. Food and water for 4 people to get through 24 hours is a LOT of stuff. You could easily justify 3 slots, but I think that removes too much fun.

A party of 4, each carrying 1 Supply has 4 days of Supply, If they are worried about heading into treacherous terrain or a mega dungeon, they now have to make tough choices, adding those factors into the game can make Supply and foraging, really matter and emphasize the exploration pillar of the game.

#3

Too much math for me. I retcon supply as enough for one person per day, and it takes up one slot. Five day trek? Five slots.

That being said, I’m not so strict about travel, food, and supply because I cut out a bunch of meaningless travel (ie, skip the commute and just get to the good stuff).

As for the rules, like so many DIY aspects of ICRPG, the book doesn’t hold your hand and spoon feed you. Take the basics and make it your own. There’s no one right way to run exploration or supply consumption. In my game, it’s not “essential to Ghost Mountain.”

#4

I agree, I hate bookkeeping. But the RAW, lists supply as enough to sustain 4 people for 1 day and doesn’t imply a slot value. I also rarely make it matter unless it’s going to up the tension.

#5

With so much being devoted to supplies in ICRPG (nearly every region if not all in Worlds references a specific requirement for them), I can’t help but want to keep it a thing. It’s already nice and abstract for book keeping purposes.

In my games, up to 10 supplies=1 slot. And I make each character burn x supplies/day of travel. It’s generally the only thing that isn’t 1 item to 1 loot slot for me.

I want it to matter enough to make choices before a journey but not so much that you have to drop a bunch of loot in the process.

I do enjoy travel using mechanics involving attempts (if not on an obvious road) and effort rolled towards HEARTS (amount relative to distance) to complete the journey. GM Timer typically means an encounter/event so the party wants to stay on track or face additional risks.

When done right travel in ICRPG can be fun and the game has plenty of mechanics and reference to support it. Supplies are a big feature imo.

#6

Totally agree, it can be a great dramatic device when used right. It’s a GREAT and SIMPLE mechanic like most of ICRPG but it is poorly explained and tough to figure out for new players. There’s basically no advice on how to use it, it’s just referenced tangentially. I agonized over how to figure it out and “use it right” (I know DIY is key to ICRPG but you still want to understand a mechanic before you tinker with it).

#7

Hey!

I don’t think there are any real issues with SUPPLY. One unit = essentials for 4 people for a day. You can decide if it uses 1 inventory slot or 2 or 3. Food for four people, if we’re talking iron rations which are the staple for fantasy ttrpgs, they take up very little space.

You’re not missing anything, and the reason it isn’t explicit is because you can make up your own rules. That’s forever been the assumption. Deserts use more supply per day than other areas, for example. Check out this small example from the KATH section:

Dune Sea: Expend 4 SUPPLIES per day to travel here, mainly carrying water.
Sweltering Jungle: The southeast is dense with jungle, and easier to traverse
with 1 SUPPLY per day.

Those seem pretty intuitive to me, and there doesn’t need to be an explicit rule for that (how much is desert vs jungle vs rainforest vs swamp vs …). Just make it up.

No need to spend time or aggravation on it, @mavfan21 . Just make it up. It’s called SUPPLY for a reason. It’s generic, broad, setting-neutral “essential stuff” like food and water.

TLDR: I think folks are still a little hung out on rules heavy systems where every situation is written out and ruled on by the designers. Just wing it, it’ll be fine. :slight_smile:

AC

#8

Sorry folks, you hit a nerve… that’s my least favorite answer - just make it up… shields up, this’ll be a little sharp.

#1 If you don’t use SUPPLY or make it meaningful in your games. That’s absolutely cool. This question isn’t for you then.

I’m a little irritated that every time someone points out something that is a core mechanic that was overlooked or could use more work, the answer I see consistently is “not spoon feeding you and make it up.” The system can’t learn or grow with that answer. Enough of those responses and you have shut down any meaningful communication you might have had.Go ahead and search the forums for spoon feed(ing) - you’ll find a mechanic that could use some work above it, with the poster sheepishly walking away going, “sorry I asked…geez”

It’s 100% okay for additive things to ICRPG have the “make it up not spoon feeding you answer.” But SUPPLY is mentioned all the time, it is a core mechanic, kind of like the Yog crystals used to be.

Here’s a few examples from other games that explore abstraction instead of bean counting and how they do it.

Tiny D6 is super simple and streamlined, doesn’t mention it, and its not an issue. You as the GM can make it an issue but there is no mechanic named “SUPPLY” that you would hang the ruling on. You are free to make it as hard or soft as you want - no part of the Tiny D6 world has “traveling cost x SUPPLY a day.” You don’t need to figure out your supply load and how much equals one loot doesn’t come up.

Dungeon World, which I assume ICRPGs SUPPLY concept comes from, has a similar mechanic called adventuring gear. It has 5 uses and 1 weight, you find whatever you need in there with certain things costing certain amounts of uses. Here the weight matters and like ICRPG it has an impact on the world, but unlike ICRPG it clearly lays out what and how it impacts it, while grounding it with the weight limit.

Five Torches Deep does something just like it, only you need to name the stuff you put in before you go adventuring. Not quite as quantum as Dungeon World and ICRPG. Weight matters a lot, it grounds the mechanic with clear consequences. Here what you brought matters but how much doesn’t.

Key take-away is each of those systems clearly defines the idea and its mechanic. That’s not spoon feeding, that’s laying out your game mechanics.

How hard would it have been to say 1 SUPPLY = 1 LOOT or some combo like that. Absence of it means it probably never came up in the 1000’s of hours of play-testing and games that have been played around the globe - so honestly it should be removed, its just confusing folks that want to use the mechanic.

@Anthony_C It’s more than just food and water (not to get down in the weeds but water does weighs a lot - pick up 5 quarts and walk around with it for a day - stuff is heavy and takes up space!) its things like bullets, rope, lanterns, oil, torches, your cooking gear, spare parts, your sleeping mat, extra cowboy hat, the list goes on.

Thanks for the helpful responses. If anyone else has examples of how much SUPPLY equals 1 loot in your games I’d appreciate hearing it!

Deathbare

#9

But herein lies the problem for you @Deathbare. Supply isn’t a core mechanic. It’s a set of guidelines. Take those and run with it. No worries, and no need for sharp elbows.

#10

Alex,

In Master’s Edition alone SUPPLY is mentioned 44 times in loot, in world travel, all over. Twice as much as a timer is mentioned and exactly as many times as D20 is mentioned. Not sure how it isn’t a core mechanic.

But again if you don’t use SUPPLY in a meaningful way, I can see why you’d dismiss the question. What I like about this game is it supports so many play-styles. I just like the idea of supply having an impact and wish I had a good guideline in the system for how to use it.

Deathbare

#11

i get the frustration of the “just make it up” answer, but i did some digging and the only mention i see is in the 2e core book. a supplies pack has food in addition to some other stuff, but its not refered to as SUPPLY, i would probably say that it takes 1 slot cause many of the packs you can have only takes up 1 slot to carry and i would think that the food would fit inside them.

#12

looked a little deeper, in blood & snow there is a pack that comes with 10 supply + other stuff. it still only takes 1 slot as far as i can tell

#13

Yeah I saw that one, it begs the question though, is that special because its a loot item, or is that the standard amount that can fit as 1 loot. The loot item makes it feel special, likes it above the norm, something you wouldn’t get otherwise.

5 or 10 supply a loot line feels kinda right but I can see the argument for 1 for 1 too. I mean food and water for 4 people, that’s almost a mules worth man. Yet supply can also be just 6 bullets. It is a wild abstraction but fun to think about.

Anyone else use SUPPLY in meaningful ways in your games? How much SUPPLY is worth 1 loot line to you?

Deathbare

#14

It’s a major part of the Worlds book (2e & Master Edition). It gets pretty specific with nearly every Alfheim region’s “Lay of the Land” requiring a certain amount of supplies and in some cases different affects on supply quantities. So it seems that at least GM and setting facing there was a lot of thought/intent behind the use of supplies.

Yes, you can throw it all out or edit it, but for those wanting to purchase a setting and/or reference, getting down supply use is understandable.

As mentioned, 10 Supply/slot is what works for me. This assuming 1 needed per person though (not 1 for 4 persons). Cost wise I keep in line with the cost list offered in the Purchase Method of Worlds so a ten pack for 10 coin.

#15

Good topic!

In my most current campaign I started using a “Death’s Door Mechanic” I put on the backside of my custom character sheets

24%20AM

This is to make dropping to 0 HP more “scary” as I’ve felt in my last 2 ICRPG campaigns i’ve finished death was easily avoided for the most part.

“The Resting for 8 hours resets death’s door” part requires someone to use a a single Supply for the rest to effect the party in this matter. 1 Supply = 1 slot

Of course if they are staying in an Inn in town or something, then it doesn’t cost supply, and instead COIN usually.

I don’t do fast travel in my travel of the map. I always have an encounter in between destinations and I don’t use supplies at all for it either.

I must say I really like the Dungeon World idea for supplies and now have to figure out a way to sprinkle that into my next campaign. Thanks for the idea.

Dungeon World style uses
Resting to reset death’s door
Rolled a 1 with a gun or bow and need to restock ammo
Need a torch for a dark cave
Basic Crafting Materials (Repair, Alchemy, Spell Components)
Empty jar to scoop up some healing water, or capture a fairy
Piece of paper to write a message
Special ammunition

#16

I don’t have an official solution for you, but here is what I came up with:

Supply Heart

Your party now begin play with a Supply Heart with a value of ten (10) points as per the original rules of ICRPG. That Supply Heart represents the food, water, bandages, and antiseptics that your characters have prepared before their adventure. A party usually replenish their Supply Heart at a settlement for a fair fee.

If you want my advice, flush the Recovery rules if you want to emphasize the dangerosity of a setting and to make supplies matter more. You will see why below.

Using supplies

When a party consume supplies from their Supply Heart, they must substract the amount remaining by a single point for each character. When the amount is substracted, every player may roll a D6 to heal by that amount.

The total cost might be raised by the Dungeon Master by one (1) point for conditions such as these:

  • Intense temperatures
  • Forced march
  • Long travel on harsh terrain
  • Debilitating injuries
  • A large character

Foraging

Characters may forage in nature to gather supplies instead of consuming from their Supply Heart, but to gather a single point of supply a player must succeed on an appropriate Target Number to the region his character is situated in.

TN Region
10 Oasis, magical forests, and the coast
12 Forests and swamps
15 Grasslands, mountains, and the Underdark
18 Deserts, the artic and Ghost Mountain
New tag: Abundant

If a location has the tag Abundant, every five (5) beyond the TN grants an additional point of supplies to the players.

Notes

  • A single Heart for the whole party? Yes! This will allow you to pace yourself and your players and until they loot more Supply Hearts some destinations will be inaccessible to them unless they find the right transportation method! The party’s survival is bound by this Supply Heart: the fantasy world is a harsh place and people must work together to overcome life in such a world.
  • Foraging is not always the solution! If the players can’t spend enough points from foraging then they will have to spend the balance from their Supply Heart. While it can be a good strategy, this is not always the case anymore.

What do you think? :blush:

A Heart of Gold
SUPPLY in practice (does anyone actually use it?)
#17

Here’s what I have on my GM Cheat Sheet:
1 Supply is consumed by 4 people each day.

Cost 1 Supply = 5 Coin, use 1 Slot.

Distance 20 miles a day on foot in good conditions, consume 1 Supply.

Adjust Halve travel distance for difficult terrain/stealth, etc. Increase it if horses/vehicles are used. Adjust Supply use as needed.

#18

Basically, I use SUPPLIES in my games as following:

  • 1 SUPPLY = 1 Slot
  • use to rest (gain 1 HEART in hours)
  • use to refill consumables (like arrows, torches, stimpacks etc.)

Note on arrows: I tend to either empty arrows/bullets on nat1 or rule to hit a random ally, hence supplies come in handy here and there. My cyberpunk-players mostly use supplies for bullets or refilling their stimpacks

Note on rest: In my next fantasy campaign, I plan to rule rest as “requires food” and “food does not restore HP in moments”, hence that idea. Else they gain 1+CON without a roll.

#19

Great ideas!

Man the 1 SUPPLY = 1 LOOT is brutal! Especially if you’re trekking through Ghost Mountain or Alfheim! A 50 mile move would have 5 slots taken between the group just for food - let alone bullets, your spare cowboy boots, or an extra bow string or whatever. Makes getting a wagon or a helpful Carrion Crab essential!

(Assuming you can only really go about 10 miles a day with all that stuff)

Next run I think I’ll try the 1 SUPPLY = 1 LOOT and experiment a bit with Blazing’s idea.

Like I said in the original post, I’m tracking the mechanic is not explained in any of the books so I’m not looking for an official solution - because it doesn’t exist, just what works in your games!

@BlazingPolyhedron that is a cool idea! I’d love to play in one of your games to see how that works!

Anyone else? How much SUPPLY do you think equals 1 LOOT?

#20

I love where you ended up on this topic @Deathbare. So much great excitement about the possibilities!!!