Blood and Snow is here for all!

#7

Not updated. There is no metal loot table and from what I guesstimate never will be. It seems to have neen diated down a bit from its original vision.

#8

Thanks for the info. That is disappointing after it is mentioned so prominently in places. :-/

#9

@Chaosmeister I had a similar moment of mild disappointment at first to the mentions of City tables in Vigilante City intro that didn’t make it into the book. Honestly, though, LOOT Tables are HARD and probably the most time consuming thing to create if you want a quality product that isn’t a bunch of retreads. And most of a big table will never ever actually be used. (Due to random rolls or cherry-picking DMs.) So I get it.

In the big scheme of things though, without any equivocation at all, Runehammer WAY OVERDELIVERS. I feel like I should be paying the man a lot more than I have for all the great material and insights and community built around them.

My recommendation? Kick that wonky Loss Aversion Bias out of your head. Just because it said there’d be one and there wasn’t, it doesn’t mean you Lost anything. If anything, you gained the opportunity to come up with 5 items more perfectly suited to your table. :grinning:

#10

Personally I’d love to see a clean up of those products. I’m not even saying its simple bit of work But I think it would be worth it because missing content (or the perception of Missing content) can leave a bad taste for people who have spent money on a product.

For exampl, with blood and snow, I think there are 3 solutions: Add the table, Remove the references to the table, or in the spirit of DIY, make it clear people should make a table themselves and maybe give an example.

Even in the ICRPG core rulebook, there are some items characters are given during character creation that have no description (eva suit I believe from memory) and when 95% of the time an item has a description, when it doesn’t it seems to be in error. Just a small symbol and footnote to explaint that the item in question is deliberately meant to be DIY. It would go a long way to relieve any negative feelings and/or confusion and encourage people who are used to more prescriptive RPGs to get comfortable with DIY.

#11

That’sl fine since I got it through the Patreon and that truly overdelivers. But saying “Tables are hard, make your own”, as it comes across a bit, sounds off putting. It’s still a lot of content, but if I had paid for it? That would affect the rating. I buy stuff so I don’t have to make my own tables. I don’t enjoy it. If it is an inconsequential table like “D12 Ice Age Looks” it wouldn’t be as bad, but that table is also linked to the “Power of Women” page and very prominently mentioned there. It was my wife who pointed it out in utter dissapointment “Another game that fails me” basically was her sentiment.

It also makes a bad first impression. If something that obvious is missing, what other errors and omissions are in there? I am immediately put off and question everything else too. If I didn’t like ICRPG already I would at that point decide to never give anything Runehammer makes another look since it has been out for a while and still not addressed which smells of abandonment. Updating a PDF is not hard and there are a lot of ways to handle it as @Abodi says above. He could even get his Patreons to help or have a contest of some form “Submit your Metal Loot table and I’ll make one character standee for you” or something like that.

This comes also from a place of love for Runehammer and I hope it comes across as such. I love this setting and system and can’t wait to run it in the future. But stuff like this makes it harder to convince my peers to give it a try. I know Runehammer gives his all and is super generous but most people out there don’t know that and many won’t care.

#12

Welcome, Chaosmeister…you are absolutely correct on the missing table being a black eye for Blood and Snow. But on the flip side it’s not a big issue, based on target audience.

I’ll be honest and acknowledge that I know your sentiment as correct and founded on wanting @Runehammer ‘s products to be the best they can be. Does the missing table that he can probably correct in 4 hours or less really detract from the product?

No, but it puts an unpleasant taste in the mouth of anyone who first encounters that product compared to the rest of his body of work.

Flip side, and I’m still wrapping my head around this in it’s entirety…You are the person running your game, adding all the billions of details missing to make the world real for your players what is a list of 20 random items, that also defines this world?

Is it really post apocalyptic? Is it Prehistoric? Is it a failed/successful exoplanet colony? That table might define that.

ICRPG is going in a very pleasant and interesting direction. Blood and Snow was a major piece going in that direction (adding tags to characters).

ICRPG 3, where this is all heading, will probably be so much more while being so much less. Personally I am hoping for a ton more cut and play/ VTT content and the blue print of what’s needed to make a decent game world.
We don’t need everything on page, we need everything in the game runners head. The less rules there, the less defined by a “rule book” the more real it can be for the table.

Does it make a difference rules or stat wise if the enemies are cyclopean horrors from before time, or the other puppies from the other kennel that are slobbering on our toys?

Answer is slightly, but not really. However, it’s a totally different world for all the players.

To someone who doesn’t know the difference between cyclopean horrors and puppies, the pages required to describe both can fill tombs. However you can trust your audience to self inform.

In the end, no excuses for the missing table, it clearly has not been a priority, but it’s also not a sign of anything other than a missed table from a low priority to fix project.

#13

This was actually addressed here: Metal Loot Table
Runehammer does mention some suggestions on this post, but like people have said, no official table.

@Paxx also shared a link to some ideas on there.

#14

I hear ya, for sure. If I was completely in the dark about ICRPG and DIY mentality, that consumer drone behavior programming would be tough to overcome. (Not saying this is you!)

I totally get that you’re coming from a place of love and “wanting to see this thing you love get the best possible reception.” (While also recognizing that—For me—that craving for the illusion of controlling the opinions of others says more about me than the game book or Runehammer or the imaginary consumer in my head I am trying to protect.)

The things mentioned would be good, especially the simplest: just edit out the handful of words in Blood & Snow and Vigilante City that have the potential to thump mainstream consumers in the nads.

But you know what’s also good?

Sticking to the punk Xeroxed zine DIY esthetic and not kowtowing to the expectations of “The Man.”

Keeping a little wabi-sabi in the product birthed in fever pitches of madness and genius.

Pressing Forward into the next new cool headspace without squandering precious creative brain time taking out commas in the morning and putting them back in again in the afternoon on a project you threw out of the nest months or years ago.

That’s my take, anyway.

#15

Come on guys! We are the shield wall! It probably took you more time to write about not having a metal Loot table than it did for me to make this:

#16

Shield wall!! AHOU!! SHIELD WALL!!! AHOU!!!

#17

The METAL LOOT table has been added, a page reference to find it from the ‘Power of women’ page, and an additional table. The 1.2 has been added to all DTRPG orders.

Also, here is BLOOD AND SNOW FREE FOR EVERYONE HERE. https://www.dropbox.com/s/hzo234f8k9dffgb/Blood%20and%20Snow%201.2.pdf?dl=0

Go forth Seekers, and mind the ice.

-HF

#18

@Chaosmeister Just for posterity, ‘another game that fails me’ and ‘a black eye’ and ‘smells of abandonment’ can be swapped for a simple direct message to me just asking ‘hey, could you add that missing table?’

I’m a glass half full kinda guy, so consider joining me in a brighter look at small oversights or accidental omissions by one-man publishers like little ol’ me :slight_smile:

#19

Hi, all

I just got B&S (dtrpg, v. 1.1) and I think I had a nerdgasm. But am I correct to assume that there are only four creature pages? Where’s all the other megafauna?

#20

@P_Frota, the rest of them come from your head. Go forth and create the creatures that populate your world.

#21

Dude, that’s not a good answer. Actually, it’s a poor excuse. If I had the time, resources or experience to do so I would. I was happy to read “See the full entries for all MEGAFAUNA in the BEASTS chapter (p. 26).” on p. 9 so you’re just kicking me in the back with that ¬¬

#22

grab 1.2 … it is the latest

#23

I don;t think BLOOD AND SNOW needs many creatures… It is a simple, minimal, realistic world. Bears, wolves, and people are 90% of monsters encountered… so a large list, to me, isn;t needed, especially when the CORE monster list is assumed as usable here… In our campaign, for example, we only encountered wolves, a cave bear, a mammoth and an anacon.

#24

Hey Hankerin, totally fair and will keep that in mind in the future. I am not used to devs being this responsive, so cheers to you! You are awesome. Thank you for this!

#25

Let me answer it a different way. The beauty of ICRPG is the simplicity of the monsters. The creatures that are encountered usually boil down to just few types. For instance, you need mooks, minions, and bosses. I think the Magic book has a set of tiers to help categorized monsters.

So, as you are designing your adventure, think about the kinds of creatures you want to face. For an easy encounter put a few mooks in front of the party. Perhaps these guys have spears (+2 all rolls) and a single heart. Then the party encounters the wild boar that the mooks were hunting. The boar can bite and stomp. Again, +4 all rolls and maybe two hearts. Finally, the party is attacked by a giant eagle. Its talons are +6 and grabs you so the eagle can take you into the air and drop you. Give it three hearts.

It doesn’t take a lot of time to design new creatures that provide challenge to your party. I hope that helps a bit.

#26

Absolutely, monsters are easy in icrpg.

Also @Runehammer thanks Hank, love your products and this update just helps to sell it others easier. Long live Runehammer!