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alternative-rules
#10

For cover, I treat things like Alex just said. I would assume Hank coming off of D&D designed ICRPG this way, even if not 100% stated in CORE rules. Full cover is still full cover (no line of sight) while partial cover becomes your HARD roll. At least that was my assumption and have treated it that way since LOL.

#11

Right @Kindred. I let the fiction control and then adjudicate in the moment. If there’s a column in the way, the monsters cannot target that player unless they or the player move. With a map, it’s easy to see cover/concealment and line of sight.

#12

The only think I can think that could counter cover if if the other person can move to a place that removes the cover from doing it’s job, then attacking.

#13

Yes. That is exactly correct.

#14

The surge system is a perfect use for this by being able to use a surge die to negate some incoming damage. A surge die burn could essentially have the effect of dodging, it would be just a matter of narrative description. I love the surge die rules and I have adopted them into my Warpshell campaign (to replace hero coins actually).

@TYMONGER I have attempted to write opposed rolls rules to plug into ICRPG but it did not work out well at all. I came to the conclusion that I was writing an entirely new games system and it was simply not worth the effort. In my opinion ICRPG does not need this kind of adjustment, it is solid as-is. I also came to the conclusion that it is all on me to improve my skills and run the system as it was designed and not try rewrite core game structures (though I do a little tweaking here and there).

#15

Just don’t confuse concealment and cover. Sometimes things provide both sometimes they do not!

2 foot thick bulletproof glass can provide cover, a blanket can provide concealment.

Other things like reinforced metal dumpsters and or boulders might provide both.

#16

Yes, but it seems wrong to me…and what is indirect fire for?

I’m very ok with my minions spraying and praying at the PCs!!! And asking what someone’s armor is and rolling a D20 is always great fun!!!

#17

I’m trying to understand @Paxx how that seems wrong? What archers do you know that can shoot an arrow through a boulder?

#18

What? Are you still asking people for their ARMOR? Even when these are around:

How old school of you. :blush:

@TYMONGER
Jokes aside, I’m with @Alex and @Kindred on this one. No need to make things complicated where such complication doesn’t really improve the game. Obviously this statement is my opinion so try what seems better for you. Just be aware, dodges slow the game make it kinda unfun for many people.

#19

Lobbing a rock over the bolder, lobbing an AoE behind the boulder, shooting a heavy machine gun in its general direction to keep them pinned.

And ‘is that the bastards foot is see peaking out there?’

Yes, an archer would not, a rifleman would not, a knife thrower would not, but in this wonderful weird game we play, the universe has a vast array of weaponry to send in the players way.

#20

Khan!!!

How dare you ruin one of my favorite things to do to a player when they are not paying attention cause they think their character is safe!!!

But yes, don’t over complicate things. Having a cool font on a character sheet is not worth the frustration!!!

#21

as always, fiction should determine whether someone is in cover or concealed.

someone crouched in the the corner of a cave might have concealment to everyone in the room… except of course the Drow leader that can see perfectly in the dark cave and sees the sneaky bastard clear as day and raises the alarm.

and you might have cover to all direct attacks until a player can justify in the fiction how whatever they are doing would in fact mean it doesn’t provide complete cover, and vice versa (enemies against players).

#22

It depends on why you think “Dexterity” means, because the word itself in just regular dictionary English means precision with your hands or mind, and it’s RPGs that taught us that it’s how you also jump out of the way of a dragon’s fireballs.

I think, since they can add base points to “Armor”, that the PCs should roll 1d20+Armor over the big red target number when being attacked or shot with fireballs. That means any given monster is even easier to run, since its attacking bonus and defending bonus is a single TN.

#23

My take on it, based on some great advice I’ve received from these very fine folks who have already commented, is the following:

There could be situations where the GM asks for a saving throw where players would then roll their attributes to satisfy, and balancing those with straightforward AC rolls makes for satisfying combat experiences.

When thinking about AC, it helps to visualize it not only as the equipped gear’s ability to mitigate a hit, but also the wearer’s ability to move around in it such that they can move away from incoming harm. Dexterity doesn’t have to provide for agility in moving your body, as AC already does that.

#24

I had this on a project i was working on. honestly? it slows everything down by a LOT and isn’t really fun in practice. Now, could there be some kind of passive defense + a die roll for it? sure, that might be cool, but straight up rolling against every action is quite annoying from my experience.

That said, if you find a way to make it fun, let us know. i want to hear it fo sho

EDIT: I forgot to mention the things I HAVE used with ICRPG - on my Exiles game (returning soon as quarantine is over) I did add some reactive sweeping attacks to some bosses, mostly dex-save-or-get-hit style stuff. these are situational things that allow a character to try avoiding them. i use them only on these type of enemies though, as normal small guys work fine under AC. big scary stuff is best for these mechanics.

#25

Don’t Do It… unless you want a game like D&D that completes 1 turn in half an hour… it slows down the game A LOT …

I like the mechanic as it reminds me of other games that do the same (Numenera being a big one), but ICRPG doesn’t do well with the DODGE or OPPOSED ROLLS rule plug in. Too much math and rolls.

It’s a good idea but remember its your game!

Game On!

#26

As @Ezzerharden and @ANTiGRAV have suggested, this mechanic might be fun once in a while, maybe against a certain boss, or even as a single room mechanic one session, just to shake things up, but I definitely wouldn’t convert my game to it.

#27

I second the comment on Numenera, and as a big fan of the Cypher System, I would add that the reason it works there is because the entire system has been written and tuned around a framework that supports this kind of play. This opens up the conversation regarding dragging and dropping game mechanics from one system to another. My take on that is that idea of importing and exporting game mechanics isn’t as commutative as one would think. ICRPG is ripe with mechanics that are simple to export to other systems, but that doesn’t mean that the receiving system is prime to receive them. Likewise, some mechanics may be wonderful in their source system, but bringing them to ICRPG could have unintended consequences.

I would please beg that this doesn’t discourage the spirit of modding your game!! And as a matter of fact, it is ultimately your table who determines what works and what doesn’t. Nothing is more heartbreaking than someone on the verge of digging up a treasure, and being called up from the hole by someone on the surface, when only 1mm away from its discovery!

#28

Wow, good words of wisdom @Axiomaric ! That’s something I hope people will always read from me when I have an opposing idea, in and out of gaming!

With that said, I agree ICRPG as is is ok in my book regarding its armor/defense system. Simple is good. I want fast play so everyone gets plenty of action and we have more time for narrative.

This Armor topic/rolling defense against room target or some variation comes up somewhat frequently. Keep in mind, if all roll d20+armor against the room target, you kill the distinction of a +2 vs. +6 attacking monster. You now have to spend more energy finding custom ways to make that piece work.

If you choose to use in ICRPG anything other than Armor when attacked, say roll a different stat as a rule, you nerf so much armor granting loot in the game which either takes it off the table or requires energy to tweak.

I suggest if a character should have a DEX based means to rep their defense then one should consider a DIY power for said character or a piece of loot that says roll DEX to dodge when hit.

Finally, remember Armor in ICRPG can be abstract as a stat. So if the narrative for your character is that they are agile, then consider a miss on them a result of them side stepping as opposed to a hit not getting through their shield or armor.

#29

Also remember “Hero Coins” can give you those occasional instances of improved defences!!! That is a simplier mechanic to adjust to make the same end. Better Defences!!!

I am planning to use hero coins as Surges, and start with 4 per player per session…How the player use them, or how the dice roll???

It is up to them, but it gives me a bit more maneuverability as a GM to not worry so much.