ROLL OFF

alternative-rules

#2

Or at lest add a skill you think you would use to dodge? I could see more adding DEX, but I could see if your playing a very smart guy your brains like INT or WIS.


#3

So are you talking about using opposed rolls?


#4

Basically yep at add a skill to help you dodge.


#5

should it just be only your armor they decides if you dodge a shot?


#6

What if you do not attack & all you do that round if hind behind a barrier? Should not that could more then just adding 3 to be able to hit you? I can not see arrow going though a bolder your hiding behind.


#7

This is going to come off as snarky, but I’ll try not sound that way.
Each added roll adds time and bandwidth use to players and GMs. However there are a myriad of ways to have it in a game that you run.

Below are 3 discussions on the topic that I remember.


#8

Dodging attacks, as an ability, is a terrible concept. Dodging (with a roll) slows down play and ultimately makes it nearly impossible to challenge that player as a DM. Meanwhile, players that don’t have that ability roll their eyes every time the high Dex character interrupts play and announces for every attack, “I’ll just dodge that.” Dodging is a major fun-ruiner in my experience.

My advice is, “just don’t go there.” Especially if you have a player who’s pushing you for this mechanic. There’s a reason why Hank didn’t include the mechanic in ICRPG. His careful genius is important.

But. If you’re hell-bent that you have to have dodge as a mechanic, then use a system like the surge system in Altered State where a player is limited to up to just a few of these per session, and they happen automatically with no roll required (so play isn’t slowed).

That being said, I do sometimes have opposed rolls in ICRPG as one of my DM tools. Strength contests are one of the clear examples, which is an easy way to do grappling: str vs str. But, I don’t know if I would extend opposed rolls to every attack or to a dodging scenario. In limited instances, opposed rolls are okay, but once you make everything an opposed roll, it’s super hard to put that cat back in the bag.


#9

If a character is completely behind cover (a boulder, a barrier, etc.), then they can’t be targeted at all. Simple. If a character merely has concealment or partial cover, then they can be targeted, but the roll for the attacker is hard. Make a hard roll and move on.


#10

For cover, I treat things like Alex just said. I would assume Hank coming off of D&D designed ICRPG this way, even if not 100% stated in CORE rules. Full cover is still full cover (no line of sight) while partial cover becomes your HARD roll. At least that was my assumption and have treated it that way since LOL.


#11

Right @Kindred. I let the fiction control and then adjudicate in the moment. If there’s a column in the way, the monsters cannot target that player unless they or the player move. With a map, it’s easy to see cover/concealment and line of sight.


#12

The only think I can think that could counter cover if if the other person can move to a place that removes the cover from doing it’s job, then attacking.


#13

Yes. That is exactly correct.


#14

The surge system is a perfect use for this by being able to use a surge die to negate some incoming damage. A surge die burn could essentially have the effect of dodging, it would be just a matter of narrative description. I love the surge die rules and I have adopted them into my Warpshell campaign (to replace hero coins actually).

@TYMONGER I have attempted to write opposed rolls rules to plug into ICRPG but it did not work out well at all. I came to the conclusion that I was writing an entirely new games system and it was simply not worth the effort. In my opinion ICRPG does not need this kind of adjustment, it is solid as-is. I also came to the conclusion that it is all on me to improve my skills and run the system as it was designed and not try rewrite core game structures (though I do a little tweaking here and there).


#15

Just don’t confuse concealment and cover. Sometimes things provide both sometimes they do not!

2 foot thick bulletproof glass can provide cover, a blanket can provide concealment.

Other things like reinforced metal dumpsters and or boulders might provide both.


#16

Yes, but it seems wrong to me…and what is indirect fire for?

I’m very ok with my minions spraying and praying at the PCs!!! And asking what someone’s armor is and rolling a D20 is always great fun!!!


#17

I’m trying to understand @Paxx how that seems wrong? What archers do you know that can shoot an arrow through a boulder?


#18

What? Are you still asking people for their ARMOR? Even when these are around:

How old school of you. :blush:

@TYMONGER
Jokes aside, I’m with @Alex and @Kindred on this one. No need to make things complicated where such complication doesn’t really improve the game. Obviously this statement is my opinion so try what seems better for you. Just be aware, dodges slow the game make it kinda unfun for many people.


#19

Lobbing a rock over the bolder, lobbing an AoE behind the boulder, shooting a heavy machine gun in its general direction to keep them pinned.

And ‘is that the bastards foot is see peaking out there?’

Yes, an archer would not, a rifleman would not, a knife thrower would not, but in this wonderful weird game we play, the universe has a vast array of weaponry to send in the players way.


#20

Khan!!!

How dare you ruin one of my favorite things to do to a player when they are not paying attention cause they think their character is safe!!!

But yes, don’t over complicate things. Having a cool font on a character sheet is not worth the frustration!!!


#21

as always, fiction should determine whether someone is in cover or concealed.

someone crouched in the the corner of a cave might have concealment to everyone in the room… except of course the Drow leader that can see perfectly in the dark cave and sees the sneaky bastard clear as day and raises the alarm.

and you might have cover to all direct attacks until a player can justify in the fiction how whatever they are doing would in fact mean it doesn’t provide complete cover, and vice versa (enemies against players).