Not liking the new EFFORT


#21

I have the quickstart which updates some of the rules, but not magic. What I can find seems that magic is balanced by costing hp. That seems like a good balance but I won’t know tell I actually get a copy.

Will the Magic book fill in the rest of the gaps or do I need to buy the Master edition?


#22

The Magic Book got a major overhaul in Master Edition, to better align with the rest of ICRPG settings.

The PDF is coming out tomorrow on DriveThruRPG, so there is going to be a lot more access to the updates very soon.


#23

free update in your inbox, Vinzent.
After playing hundreds of ICRPG games I can say, for my part, EFFORT is truly perfected. D6 wasnt enough for guns, and D8 wasnt enough for magic… also D10 was missing, so now it has a home.

Jam a few session with these effort die and report back! As always, thanks for reading!!!


#25

Thanks a lot! I wasn’t expecting that. But there is nothing in my inbox…:neutral_face:


#26

Did you reply directly to him? :stuck_out_tongue:
Or tagged him?


#27

vinzent just email me for a pdf. hankerin.ferinale@gmail.com


#28

I’m happy to be reading everyone’s input on this topic. In past games I’ve had characters that shine more than others especially when there are detailed dice linked to specific weapons.

A lot of times my warriors would mow down people in fights whereas my casters, snipers and rouges feel like they don’t really contribute.

What I would like to add is that the EFFORT is base and there are a lot of factors that can be considered. I like the uniform d6 because to me, it helps facilitate that the PCs are not reliant on maxing their dice output but rather the LOOT, creativity and other applicable bonuses. Sure some weapons are just more dangerous than others, but I truly believe that in the hands of a skilled PC, anything can be deadly.

Just my opinion.


#30

I was checking board messenger not email. I have update, thank you.


#31

You know, @Vinzent, I have pondered a long time if I should reply, but here’s the thing… I wholeheartedly support the Master Edition, but the new Effort was the one thing I disliked too. I swear I totally understand why the change was made but my group and I decided to keep the old Effort dice and so can you :slight_smile:

My group decided not to use the new effort because: (1) we already had a system in place for different types of weapons, both ancient and modern, melee and ranged (see below); (2) we like the idea in the Core 2E that says that d10s are reserved for LOOT and that when the GM touches a D10 the table should start drooling for what’s to come (Core 2E, p. 186); and (3) having D8 as the highest natural effort makes the D12 Ultimate Effort much more awesome.

In some of our games, we like to have mechanical differences in weapons. In Core 2E this was done through TAGS (Core 2E, p. 29-30) but, in the true DIY tradition of ICRPG, Hank left the mechanical effects of WEAPON TAGS for GMs and Players to decide. I have extensively defined the TAGS I use in our games based on my Players’ preferences and here’s how we roll:

  • Light weapons such as daggers, darts, etc. deal (Weapon Effort -2) damage and can be dual wielded; if they have the Thrown quality, you can throw them up to NEAR. When using these you can attack with STR or DEX (even in melee!) because they’re light. Some are also fast, so you can attack again on a modified 18+
  • Normal weapons deal (Weapon Effort) damage. These are the standard short swords, staves, clubs.
  • Some weapons (longswords, spears, maces) deal (Weapon Effort +2) damage. These also have a special quality attached that triggers on a modified 18+ … longswords cause bleeding, maces can stun, etc.
  • Big weapons (your polearms, two-handed swords, etc.) deal (double Weapon Effort -2) damage (or 2d6-2 usually). These are big and heavy and HARD to use in tight spaces, but you can attack from behind allies or even make arc attacks (hit two enemies with a single swing, dealing normal Weapon Effort against each one).

Shortbows deal (Weapon Effort) and longbows deal (Weapon Effort +2) damage; shortbows can be used mounted and within CLOSE range without penalties, longbows are optimized for NEAR range and are HARD to use within CLOSE. In our games light crossbows deal (Weapon Effort +2) damage and heavy crossbows (double Weapon Effort -2) damage and have the same limitations of bows, but they compensate the higher damage with the need of an action to reload.

So, what about GUNS?

Honestly, I have only used guns in one adventure, but they would follow the same rules. A breakdown of basic guns could be:
(All guns should be optimized for NEAR range and HARD to fire within CLOSE distance, except where noted.)

Shotgun: (double Weapon Effort -2) damage, only shots up to NEAR range, causes knockdown on modified 18+
Pistol: (Weapon Effort) damage, can be DUAL-wielded for +2 damage, can hit CLOSE targets without penalty, attack again on modified 18+.
Sub Machine Gun (SMG): (Weapon Effort) damage, doubled at CLOSE range
Light Machine Gun (LMG): (Weapon Effort +2) damage, multifire mode can hit up to three targets per attack, attack again on modified 18+
Assault Rifle (AR): (double Weapon Effort -2) damage, damage dice explode
Marksman Rifle (MR): (double Weapon Effort -2) damage against targets at FAR or DISTANT range, HARD to use against NEAR or CLOSE.

Add to these some weapon mods that increase the trigger range of effects to 15+ or 12+ or add new effects (explosive ammo/damage dice explodes, ) and you have some pretty nasty guns.


The Dilemma of the Second Deltohedron
#32

That’s actually a REALLY cool mod list there. :slight_smile:


#33

Guys, yesterday after I read this and replied above I had a bolt of inspiration that I’m going to try.

I talked to my group about the new Effort, we played a few encounters with it, they didn’t like it for reasons I already discusses (also, we are BIG on the 6 stat/4 effort combo because of character generation reasons too long/not related to this post).

I’m going to try to bring the new rules into play again, but I’m going to do it a little bit more… organically. Help a fellow GM here, will you? Please tell me if you think this could work.

So, my fantasy campaign has hints of ancient advanced technology everywhere, very ICRPG-style (also because Phantasy Star IV was my favorite game growing up). So, I’m going to introduce visitors from the stars and an alien race of evil invaders of something who will bring technology to the world. At the beginning of this story arc:

D4 / basic, D6 / weapon & tools, D8 / magic, D12 / ultimate

There are 15th-century guns (flintlock pistols and rifles) in the setting. These use D6 effort. But with the invasion, some tinkers will produce more advanced guns and some other trinkets. And then we’ll have:

D4 / basic, D6 / weapon & tools, D8 / guns & magic, D12 / ultimate

So, the new guns will be as powerful as magic. The the story arc will take the PCs on an adventure to find ways to counter the invaders/villains powers… and they will change the world, making magic stronger overall. As a counter, the invaders will bring energy weapons and tech powers (inspired by The Division / Watch Dogs)… And I’ll introduce the new effort:

D4 / basic, D6 / weapon & tools, D8 / guns & technology, D10 / magic & energy, D12 / ultimate

I hope this might help my Players enjoy the new Effort better. I’ll also introduce trainers to give them the new abilities/mastery for their classes. Going from 2E - ME organically.


The Dilemma of the Second Deltohedron
#34

depending on the game, I either use the die steps dynamically (best choice of tool/weapon steps up one; worst choice steps down one), or I change the steps for the setting, e.g. d6 for 1-handed weapons, d8 for 2-handed ones. The first idea I mentioned comes up more often, though. If someone with a dagger fights a skeleton, it will only do d4 damage, while the guy with the mace will do d8 damage. Makes it more dynamic and uses silly dice more often. :wink: