More Hardcore 5E Rules Questions - Death Saves and Spell Attacks

#1

It’s me again, Margaret! This time with some questions that came up in some recent sessions of mine.

  1. When a character is dropped to zero hit points they must make a Death Save on their turn, per the normal rules. However, all players decide what order they go in, so when does the Death Save need to be rolled? At the start of the collective player turn or only when the downed player decides to “take a turn”?

  2. Speaking of Death Saves, when a character succeeds in a Death Save do they stop making saves and instead become “Bleeding Out”?

  3. In the Hardcore Rules you have to roll first to see if you can cast any spell of 1st Level or above, but many spells also require a Ranged Spell Attack (See: Scorching Ray). Would you count the roll to see if you can cast the spell as the same Ranged Spell Attack to save time, or have the magic user roll again, increasing their odds of succeeding in the spellcast but failing to hit?

BONUS JONAS QUESTIONS:

Well it’s more of a rules pitch. If a spellcaster fails their roll to cast a spell would you think it’s a good idea to allow for the roll to cast next turn to be at Advantage if they are attempting to cast the same spell they failed to cast in the previous turn?

Another idea, if two wizards share the same spell in their library could they aid one another to give advantage on the spell casting roll?

Keep your shields up, y’all!

#2

  1. I don’t think death saves are normally a part of Hardcore mode: three rounds at 0 hp and you die (p 9). However, if you use a death save, place it at the start of the player’s turn.

  2. I think you should use either, or - never both. Because they detract from each other. Bleeding out is basically a timer, urging other players to shift priorities. So if you use it, you want that quality to be as apparent as possible.

  3. Collapse the rolls into one.

Bonus Jonas 1: no advantage for me. In ICRPG there is a suggested rule giving bonuses to re-trying after failure, but I think that is generally bad advise. Because, you normally want to encourage players to try new plans, not double down on something that didn’t work. So I’d be hesitant to allow it in ICRPG, and would never allow it in a game like hardcore.

Bonus 2: this, however, I think is a very good idea. Synergies and coordination are always fun.

#3

On the topic of the Death Save, the document doesn’t really make it clear (Or rather it explains it twice). In the short rules explanation of the Hardcore rules in the beginning of the document it mentions only having one Death Save and the rest of the conditions of Death. On page nine that you referenced it doesn’t dedicate time to clarifying the Death Save hardcore death condition refers to that short and sweet list that does suggest that when you go to zero hit points you just start bleeding out.

On one hand having a singular Death Save means the player dreads having their turn and may be dead if no other players jump to save them. But if they make that save they are only bleeding out and have three rounds of grace before final death. On the other hand having them immediately drop to the bleeding out condition removes the dread of rolling for their character’s death but opens the GM up to Coup De Grace finishing moves on the player that would favor the “you’re dead at -10hp” or an environmental effect that would make them automatically fail a Death Save. One option is definitely more punishing than the other, but I just don’t know if that was the intent.

#4

I stand corrected, you are absolutely right that it is mentioned in the early summary. I assumed that the bullet lists referred to the category of “save vs death” - also mentioned in the gm section. But from the section that you point out, I was obviously mistaken.

Now that I understand this, your interpretation with one save, then either dead or bleeding out, seems likely. I still don’t think the systems interact well, however, and don’t see myself using both.

Thanks for pointing this out.