ICRPG rules clarification

#1

Hillman’s Belt - Always roll ULTIMATE when doing basic effort

How does this work? Does this include unarmed combat and lockpicking?

Do Wildlings use the Ultimate Effort bonus or Basic Effort bonus
#2

Good read from @GmGrizzly in relation to your question:

#3

Answers most of my question. Does this include unarmed combat? If so why does the Wildling have melee weapons? Seems pointless

#4

Sorry I keep sending you somewhere, but this was debated in the old G+ forums as well:

#5

I had seen this before. Still doesn’t help. I would love to hear what @Runehammer or even veterans like @Alex or @James_Horn have to say on this.

#6

At character creation, this item has been debated as over powering to other character’s ability. And yes, unarmed combat becomes very effective, as does lockpicking or deciphering clues.
Consider, though, that this is primarily limited by the BASIC containment type. Sure, a young wildling has immense punching power, but as their loot evolves, that bonus is eclipsed by the capabilities of items and weapons. Basic is not ranged, either.

The issue, I think, is the perception that day 1 melee damage output is such a huge measurement of a character’s worth. I have yet to roll a wildling, because playing the ‘fresh outta nature’ character is VERY limiting to me…

does that help? remember too…any item that seems to upend the fun in your game get modded or dumped!

Hillman's Belt link unsecure or nonexistent
#7

so when i read this out of the book. i interpreted it as a bonus to basic effort

IE. searching, looting boxes, Basic tasks.

but i can see if punching and kicking are also basic effort. then why use weapons if you start with that item. you are rocking a 1d12 punch or kick. so this could be a monk class type character???

#8

Thank you! That does clear it up for me. Powerful but it does have it’s limits.

#9

Yes powerful unarmed damage like a monk. I prefer to think of a wildling fighting like a wild animal. A no nonsense brawler.

#10

Just saw this. My take is roll a D12 any time you would roll for basic effort (unarmed combat, brute forcing doors, relying on raw wits, etc.) and add your basic bonus and ultimate bonus. Lockpicking generally requires lockpicks, so it is not a basic task, and I would make that character roll weapon effort instead if he tried to pick a lock. He would be way better trying to just brute force the door down.

Yes, that makes an unarmed brawler super powerful in unarmed combat right from the jump, but as Hank pointed out, that’s a somewhat limited build. It’s great up close, but it’s not great against ranged attackers. That being said, there is nothing wrong with that player having his moment to shine, but I would have no trouble giving that character fits as a DM.

#11

Makes sense to me. I like your take on lockpicking. Some sort of tools should be required and that would be weapon effort.

#12

As already mentioned, it’s been generally agreed that tools use WEAPON instead of BASIC for effort. Some of this came about due to discussions around how long it was taking for players to open stuff using BASIC. It was suggested to sometimes use a success count rather than an actual effort count (two successes and it opens) or no effort at all (succeed and it opens).

So players stack WEAPON and bring tools and then roll a 1 or get sprayed by acid and ‘poof’ – no more tool to do the job for WEAPON and they are suddenly back to BASIC and didn’t put any bonuses in it.

The main point is the timer – if you want to slow them down… make stuff harder to open or get around. Hillmen are really good at forcing stuff open or getting around it because they are a bit wild and don’t need a bunch of bells and whistles to get it done. If that same hillman wants to punch people instead of using a weapon, that’s totally epic which is ICRPG. A hillman priest with the dire bear spell decked out as more of a shaman would be rad for this.

It isn’t a min/max thing. Does it make more sense to attack bare handed to roll D12? Sure. Does it make more sense for your fur clad hillman to use his fists rather than to swing his axe? Nope. I personally have found the player, when given the choice, will play their character rather than the dice and will always pick the axe over their fists even though the dice clearly provide a bigger possible outcome if they go bare-handed. It’s just more fun to be your character than to be the dice.

Unlike Alex, I took this to mean changing the BASIC die to a D12 and on a natural 20, roll 2d12 and use your BASIC and ULTIMATE bonus. I already know the game itself is about you – not the rule. So the cool part of all this is… What do you think it should do? :slight_smile:

#13

[I dared to weave some necromancy on this three-year-old post because I did some thinking related to this thread recently when building characters for a battle royale one-shot, and there are a few points not otherwise articulated in the prior discussion… Thanks for your indulgence.]

[Edited to correct my earlier error—with thanks to AC.]

While ULTIMATE damage on your unarmed, empty-handed melee attack is a useful ability to have for a new character at its inception, as has been stated previously, it’s not the be-all-end-all of attacks—or even melee (CLOSE-range) attacks.

The powerful ULTIMATE effort for an unarmed attack can be governed in-game situationally by its implementation; a character with a powerful unarmed strike might not want to use it to break down a burning barricade or to punch a monster with poison spines or consisting of/covered in acidic goo (oozes, eat al.) One of the few decent pieces of crunch for D&D 5e that I actually like to use at my table and plug into ICRPG (rather than the more usual converse) are the thirteen different damage types defined in that game; this lets me give creatures resistance or immunity to specific kinds of attacks, so a creature immune to bludgeoning damage can shake off D12 punches all day, and a sword or dagger doing D6 slashing or piercing damage remains completely relevant in-game.

In summary, I think it’s useful to remember that the GM has options at her/his disposal to provide challenge for such players when deemed necessary.

Game on.

#14

Hey Chris,

It might be the lack of coffee, but I fail to understand why basic effort crits three times as often as a D12. Unless you’re using a house rule for exploding dice, where are you getting this from?

AC

#15

Sorry, you are correct. I misspoke. If you are using “exploding dice,” D4 explodes three times as often; I got my mechanics mixed up. Probably due to lack of coffee.