ICRPG ME "Spell Points" and recovery

homebrew
icrpg-magic
mana

#1

I’ve had an idea to subtly change magic in my games but would like some lumpy head advice/ideas…

Firstly I like the ‘Stun Points’ method which I was calling ‘Spell Points’ (for flavour).
Maybe even call it Mana for extra flavour?

I also like the idea of when your attacked/take damage you lose a ‘Spell Point’, I imagine it’s like losing concentration or being under stress.

I’ve not used alot of magic in my games yet so feel free to correct me, but one problem I can see is you could be down to no ‘Spell Points’ pretty fast and as a caster that could be a bit of a downer. I don’t wanna be the type of GM that gives my players whatever they want but I also don’t wanna ruin their fun if its a pure magic user they want to play.

So finally my idea!!!

Option 1…
A spell caster can spend a whole Turn “Meditating”.
Make a INT/WIS check to recover 1+INT or 1+WIS ‘Spell Points’ (depending on what type of caster they are)
Too much??

Option 2…
A spell caster can spend a whole Turn “Meditating” Make a INT/WIS check to recover INT bonus or WIS bonus worth of ‘Spell Points’
Still too much??

Option 3…
A spell caster can spend a whole Turn “Meditating” Make a INT/WIS check to recover 1 ‘Spell Point’
???

Also once casters are out of SP they can use HP to cast spells.
1 HP = 2 SP

It would be great to hear your thoughts

STR, HON + BEER :beer::fist:


Having more than 1 magic system is a good thing
#2

What about mimicking the HP recovery rules? Spend an action to make an INT or WIS roll to recover mana:

Make an INT roll to recover Mana = 1 + INT

or

Make a WIS roll to recover Mana = 1 + WIS

This way there is a familiar mechanic that is re-themed for mana/spells.


#3

I have GM’d and presided over a weekly campaign with at least one arcane spellcaster at the table every week for the last year and a half, during a campaign that is neither low-magic nor high-, right in the middle. I have seen many, many spells slung. What works best for my table is something I’d invite you to try: make arcane spellcasters (Mages) pay for their INT spells in actual hit points. This is the scheme I have adopted for my game since ICRPG Magic first came out.

Every listed INT spell has a casting cost, which is 1 HP for (virtually) all the spells listed in the Players Guide in Master Edition. This has the principal advantage of having no separate pool of casting points for players to have to track. It also brings a lot more drama, tension, and tactics to being a Mage. If a character loses that last hit point casting magic, the character drops—stable but indefinitely unconscious—so that final spell has to really matter. Casting on a dwindling pool of HP puts Mages in an interestingly precarious spot.

If you feel like your Mage players might worry this is too much of a downer or a nerf from unlimited free casting (which can get a bit out of control for some GMs’ taste), give the players and their characters access to the extended spell list and spell POWER levels from Advanced Magic. I use this hand in hand with hit points for casting costs in all my games, and personally I think it’s the ideal magic system for use in Alfheim in ICRPG. You have now effectively doubled down—or tripled, or quadrupled—on the drama and fun you can provide for INT spell users. Casting costs as high as 16 hit points for seriously insane amounts of damage to both the target and the caster come into play. I urge you to consider it.


#4

Sorry yeah that’s what I meant but I missed that part out of my explanation, I shall edit my original post :+1:


#5

I did actually like the HP idea from Magic, I was thinking of letting casters use HP if they use all of their ‘Spell Points’. I like to think it simulates the strain on a caster if they use all their SP and have to start using HP instead


#6

That’s an interesting middle-ground option.

My two questions are:

  1. What is your ultimate goal in subtly tweaking your spellcasting implementation? What do you want to be/feel different about your game after you make the change?
  2. Do your spellcasting PCs typically cast 10+ spells before they would otherwise be able to effect some hit point recovery (either partial gains or full health)?

I think setting sights on the specific goal you want to achieve and being conscious of the “sweet spot” in your game where the rules you hack will make a meaningful difference in your game are the keys to designing your change.


#7

Mainly just a way to recover SP without them having to rest. But I suppose if I’m allowing them to eat into HP after they have used SP then SP recovery (meditation) might be too much


#8

I think I’m scraping meditation SP recovery in favour of…

Players have 10 Spell Points

Power Level 1 spells cost 2 SP
Power Level 2 spells cost 4 SP
Power Level 3 spells cost 6 SP
Power Level 4 spells cost 8 SP
(RAW ME)

After losing all your SP you can no longer cast spells…UNLESS!

Only when you have no SP you can use your Hit Points to cast spells.

2SP = 1HP

So…
Power Level 1 spells cost 1 HP
Power Level 2 spells cost 2 HP
Power Level 3 spells cost 3 HP
Power Level 4 spells cost 4 HP


#9

After some research and pondering you’ve convinced me! I’m scraping SP and gonna try just using HP to cast spells. I really like the different feel it gives to magic.
Magic is dangerous! Powerful yes but dangerous! I imagine the history books of Alfheim are full of stories of mages who used too much and ending up paying the ultimate sacrifice…


#10

Good luck. I hope it works well for you.

Your Mages will still be out of control.


#11

After seeing how this post has rolled out and the great advice @chrisbynum has given I agree that using HP to cast spells is a great way to go!


#12

That’s why this community is amazing!
Thank you to all the shield wall :fist:


#13

Warning this is a long reply!

So I am gearing up to run a prehistory (bronze era) game in my established D&D 3.5 (WotC 1e) game world. The Setting that my friend and I have created and used for years is called “The Chronicles of Magic”. In all the games we played we always used the vancian method of magic found in the D&D 3.5 handbook. I have never been a fan of that method and for this next game in the same world, I wanted to use word casting from Pathfinder 1e but did not like the classes nor the lack luster power of the magic. The history of the game world has always told of great and terrible power wielded by ancient heroes and their foes. SO i set out on a hunt for a game engine that I could build/homebrew the game upon, I found ICRPG.

The real point of this response is the Draft Mechanic I am using, yet to grasp the mechanic I think I need to explain a bit more.

This is the magic system I homebrewed based on 2e/me:

CONSTELLATIONS
Your Constellation represents the source of magic from which you can draw upon to cast spells. Each MANA STAR within your Constellation represents 10 Motes of magic. All starting characters begin their journey with ONE STAR in their Constellation. It is possible to increase one’s Constellation by acquiring additional MANA STARS through LOOT or MILESTONE REWARDS.

DETERMINE COST
The cost of a spell always starts at 1M (Mote) per TIER and may cost more Motes as you apply any of the following modifiers.

Counter the effects of another spell: +2MP/Tier countered

Use more than 1 WORD in a single turn or spell: +2MP/WORD*

Hindered Line of Sight (fog, crowd, dense foliage, long distance, etc.): +1MP

No Line of Sight: +2MP

Interruptions or unable to focus (status effects): +1MP/per each occurance

Already maintaining an ongoing spell that requires focus: +1MP/active spell

Affecting multiple targets or large area: +2MP/Additional Target or Area Size

*When using additional WORDS the effect of any of these WORDS can not exceed the more that ½ the TIER of the Primary WORD.

*When using additional WORDS you can not use words that oppose one another as this will cancel the spell’s effect (cold/fire, earth/air, etc).

DRAFT
For each STAR, you have 10 Motes of Light to use on spells, but how do you draw in those Motes of Light beyond rest, meditation, and mana potions. Simple: Take a DRAFT Action!
DRAFT is when you use a turn to stop everything you’re doing and focus your mind. Breath in the natural mana of your surroundings, reorganize your thoughts, or tap the layline beneath your feet. Depending on the time frame you’re in, the outcomes are slightly different. This is your chance to regain spent power!

IN MERE MOMENTS: In combat time, you have a limited chance of DRAFTING. With only seconds to spare, and distractions all around. If you spend a combat turn to DRAFT, you must meet or beat the current TARGET with a HARD CASTING roll to recover 1 MOTE. That’s right just like Hit Points, 1 + your CASTING STAT bonus.

IN HOURS: When between battles, use one turn to draft 1 STAR. No roll. The concept of ‘safety’ is less crucial here, as focusing one’s mind can still be done in the deepest of dark pits.

IN DAYS: If spending days of time in between combat scenarios, you recover all STARS with no roll.

RUNNING OUT OF MAGIC
If you cast a spell that would use every Mote of mana or more you may use HP to complete the spell. However running out of mana comes at a cost, you become MANA SICK (See Status Effects) and casting becomes very difficult and costly.

  • Mana Sickness - All casting actions are HARD, this can not be circumvented. You are unable to draft mana and must rest a number of days equal to the number of Stars in your personal constellation to end your Mana Sickness.

Again just my homebrew for a high magic game as the prehistory of the game world had/has more abundant mana than later eras … for setting/story/world creation reasons.