How to use WIS in a Earth-like world

chitchatting
#1

Premise. I am thinking to set up a survival adventure in an Earth-like setting.
There will be still tough stuff hunting the players, extreme dangers, but the player will have no access to magic or futuristic technology, they will be just people like us struggling to survive.

So, given that, I can figure out how all the normal stats can play a role in such a setting, not only in terms of interpretation but also for “balance” or usefulness. All stats appart of WIS.
STR, DEX, and CON, usual DnD-like stuff, easy.
INT is used for making stuff in McGavier style and technology.
And finally, CHA for usual social interaction and to manage SANITY and fear for the character and its allies (that is an important part of the setting/adventure)

But what about WIS? I have always struggled to separate INT and WIS even in normal DnD (I mean, I understand the difference, but I struggle to see the necessity of such a difference). However, there is Divine magic in fantasy settings, so I can get it.

But in a setting without any magic? What does WIS stand for in terms of roleplaying? And more importantly, is it just a STAT for a few checks, and that is it? Would be it left behind the other 5?
Would it be really necessary to distinguish between INT and WIS, at the end?

Just curious to know what would you guys think about it, if it is or not an issue, how would you manage it, and how other games have addressed the “issue.”

Thanks all!

#2

One aspect of the WIS ability score can be an individual’s perception, how well that person notices and recognizes details in the environment. This can be tracking game in the wilderness or noticing a thug in a crowd with violent intent.

Another more abstract aspect of WIS you might consider for your characters could be “integrated understanding” as opposed to academic book-learning. Lots of people are smart and/or educated, but some people just “get it” when making sense of the universe and their experience in it. For example, you might allow a player with a WIS bonus to exploit it to resist fear and avoid flinching and appearing vulnerable when confronting a wild beast, thereby avoiding an attack by keeping it together and standing ground. Knowing that one shouldn’t provoke a hostile wild animal is intelligent; knowing HOW not to provoke a hostile wild animal is wise. Sure, you could opt to use CHA in this example, but I think you can make a valid case for a WIS check, especially if the aspects of the character being tested are more passive than active. (Hiking through bear country safely requires a WIS check, but attempting to scare one off requires a CHA roll (probably opposed).)

I’m sure there are other aspects of WIS that make it a meaningful ability in a no-magic campaign setting, but I hope the suggestions above help you frame this attribute.

#3

Yes, of course those are the uses in dnd-like RPGs, but Perception alone is really enough to justify an entire STAT?
I mean, as a player, I would never spend points on WIS just for perception, it is just so minorly relevant that you dig a hole for yourself spending points there.

As you said you can use INT or CHA depending on the situation.

And if they are knowledge different from their intelligence… what goes on one and what on the other?

What I mean is that it seems to be forcing for having more rules, when actually it is not needed.

#4

If you want to simplify down to five ability scores, by all means, you should do so, and re-map any WIS checks to INT or CHA. There are plenty of RPG rulesets out there clearly inspired by D&D that adequately represent an entire human being with only 3 to 5 stats.

I think it really depends on your table and your setting.

In my own game, WIS is far from being a dump stat, even for non-Priests. It is the stat that gets checked whenever a threat is sneaking up on a character, often opposed against a DEX roll, so it gets used without fail in every session, regardless of any spellcasting or divine magic. The Core 2.0 rules (p. 14) specifically mention resisting confusion under duress and intuiting intention as functions of WIS, both likely useful skills for common situations in the survival scenario you outlined.

My Scout PCs and NPCs always have a bonus of 1 or 2 points in WIS. Coupled with some loot like a spyglass for even more WIS bonus and winged boots for mobility, the class becomes very potent within its intended area of contribution to the adventuring party.

#5

Here is my homebrew alternative stats / weapon incase you find inspiration.

use what you like and discard what you don’t ! The DIY mindset!

Strength! Honor! Beer!

#6

Nice chart, lean and clear!

#7

I use wis for nature-y stuff, and low-tech and practical knowledge, so it sits between int and dex in my game. In a medieval setting, would use wis to set hunting traps, track, forecast weather, first aid, and handle animals. Int would in turn be used to decipher glyphs, aim a siege machine, create alchemical potions, know heraldry or history, pick a lock, and similar things. Dex would be acrobatics, stealth, sleight of hand, dodge, balance, reactions, and similar acts.

But it is a bit of a stretch, and I don’t think you should feel like you have to keep the six stats if you don’t like them.

#8

Exactly. :+1: (I have given players a chance to use a WIS roll to render basic first aid, although conceptually I prefer to think of it as an aspect of INT—possibly an artifact of having a PhD in a biomedical field. :nerd_face:)

#9

You are not handcuffed to six stats. You can always mold the three mental stats into two. Int and Wis can be formed into one. You can call it Craft or Wits or Int, whatever.

But

Wisdom can be utilized in your game the same way its used in a setting like Blood & Snow. The way I GM B&S, it’s essentially a survival game.
Wisdom is used for Tracking, Foraging, Animal Handling, etc. I mean, it D&D 5e, survival is literally a Wisdom skill.

#10

That’s a good point, I will check again B&S

I would like to “save” the WIS stat for this game, for clarity reason, but at the moment I am more oriented at 5 stats. Hope to change idea

#11

Taking a lesson from real life, I know lots of very INTelligent people who do unWISe things all the time… :thinking:

#12

Wisdom is tricky, because its essential definition is “good decision making”, but how do you separate the ability of the character to make good decisions from the ability of the player to make good decisions? The answer is to call a stat wisdom that is in fact a hodgepodge of other qualities, like perception, empathy, EQ, and willpower.

#13

WIS is basically common sense, when something relies on gut instinct, on knowing who to trust, who is out to screw you over. In a survival setting, WIS is very important. Its more than perception, its the very root and source of survival instinct. Its where we play risk/rewards in our own mind. I will agree that INT and WIS have similarities, but aren’t interchangeable. Its just like STR and DEX. Both are physical, and they usually have some correspondence in real like. But being able to lift a lot of weight and being able to do yoga poses are two totally different skills. In the same way, being able to identify an edible mushroom is a different skill than knowing its not a good idea to eat an unidentified mushroom. That being said its your table and your game to simplify if you wish. I’d consider combining STR and DEX as well though, if you are just really wanting to simplify the mechanics.