How to determine the proper number of enemies?

#1

Hi folks -

I just got the corebook for ICRPG and I had a question. I am planning on running my group through Doomvault as a starter game, but when checking the encounters, I don’t see anywhere that indicates how many enemies get populated into the encounter areas. I know this game plays fast and lose, but is there any place in the core book that discusses encounter creation and the proper number of monsters that your party should face? Or do you just wing it?

If anyone has an answer to this, I’d appreciate if you could let me know.

Otherwise the game is great - I am loving it! Just ordered Worlds and Magic too.

Thanks
Bluekabuto

#2

I’m sure you’ll get a lot of helpful answers here, but I typically just wing it. I’ll adjust the encounters as I go, mostly by using timers to bring in more monsters if the PC’s are making it look too easy and then also adding in environmental effects that might damage PCs or manipulate the battlefield. I hope this helps a little.

#3

You just wing it. It’s pretty Old School in that regard.You have to know your party and feel it out.

#4

Its kind of a “feel” thing that you get used to, but a good rule of thumb is this: four one-heart party members should be pretty evenly matched with four one-heart monsters at an 11 target.

Accordingly, a night of play might be like this: For a brand new party, try a target of 11 with four one-heart monsters for the first room. For the second room, try the same thing but with a target of 12. For the third room, try a target of 13 with four monsters with one heart and a boss with two hearts. That is a good progression and should challenge them sufficiently, depending on the dice.

Then play it by ear. IF they are super ragged at the end of the second room, maybe only throw the boss and two enemies at them. If they are in great shape at the end of the second room, maybe add an enemy and make one or two of them do magic damage.

#5

Ok - sounds pretty simple. I wasn’t sure if there was a preset number or something. Certainly wouldn’t want to through them into the room and have 10 merman and 6 ropers. Maybe 4 mermen and 1 roper to start would be better. I also noticed the ropers weren’t detailed. I am assuming it’s left to me to decide what that beast can do. Are there any resources out there that convert existing monsters from other systems into ICRPG?

Thanks
Bluekabuto

#6

Cave Roper. Core. P.116. It’s there.

And yeah, 3-4 mermen with the roper should be a meaningful challenge, depending on your target and the size of your party.

#7

I looked for an encounter builder but couldn’t find it. I think its cause there are no levels and loot isn’t really rated - so party power levels are probably allover the place and there is no easy way to rate a party vs opposition.

Whenever I try encounters with a new system, I tend to design an “easy out” for the players. It may be in town with roaming guards ready to help out or there might be threats that can “join the fray” and attack the opposition. Or maybe even some kinda environmental thing they can use to their advantage or whatever. That way if shit goes south, you can give them an easy out that seems plausible.

An easy one is the bar room brawl or the drunk thugs or some variant. So, I would design a bare knuckle brawl or something that isn’t to the death and that lets me get a feel for how it plays without killing off a bunch of newly minted PCs.

Anywho, thats my plan for the upcoming campaign anyways.

Also, the more I read the system, I think the target number is almost more important than enemy number. If you make it 14 or something, right off the bat, they will likely really struggle. But a 10, 11 or whatever, for the first combat, will probably feel alright.

#8

The way I have been thinking of it is not the number of enemies, but instead the number of actions the GM has on their round. There is a lot of theory on this from the D&D and Pathfinder world if you search for ‘Action Economy’.

Essentially my understanding of it is

If you have 4 players, with 2 actions each, that is 8 player actions per round. So as a rule of thumb you would have enemies that give the GM 8 actions on the table. Maybe a Boss that has 3 actions, and some weaker ones that have less.

Obviously this is just a very general rule of thumb that isn’t as easily followed in ICRPG as there isn’t the rigidity in the system like D&D and Pathfinder propose.

In conclusion, it might be best just to throw out logic and instead make it cool.

#9

Best advice I can give, is to forget about balance. It’s not a thing in real life and shouldn’t be in your games either.

The problem with balance in an RPG is that if your players know the game is balanced… they will always resort to combat to solve problems, instead of finding interesting solutions.

My suggestion would be to do what Alex suggests, feel it out. Start out with a one to one ratio and see how your players fare, and increase from their. Eventually you will get the feel for it.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of ICRPG!!

#10

How many are in a Legion? Asking for some friends who probably need to make a backup character or two…
:smiling_imp:

#11

1000d4. Get rolling.

#12

You’ll most likely get a result between 2400-2600. :smile:

#14

firefight
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#15

Welcome to Treats, one of the three T’s. You’ll find these are recommended in the Game Mastery Chapter of CORE.

But really, there is no balance or balanced encounters. You get to do what’s cool for the encounter and, as Data puts it, also create “easy outs” for them if they are quick on their feet.

Sometimes, however, TPKs will happen. Part of the game. It just happens.

The general advice is, when first approaching the game, set your TARGETS low, so they can be increased mid-rooms.

(Intended to segway from quote to OP, sorry Data_Lore)

#16

My rule of dumb:
Less hearts than players - more antagonist (easier to kill)
Same hearts as players - same number of antagonist (almost balanced)
More hearts than players - fewer antagonist (boss fight!)

Players piss you off? +3 antagonists
Players having fun? +4 (just kidding here!)

It starts to skew when you factor in skills/tags but that’s the spice of the game right?

Wish them luck & see what happens.

#17

As a GM, I ALWAYS have a few backups for the players, or take NPC roles to keep them in the game.

#18

Hey there, welcome to the fold.

I personally do what Kreeba does and match action economy of the players for most encounters. I have 6 players so thats 6 actions on average I try and have as a DM.

and always remember that a challenge is not to just give the enemies more hearts, its to make them more deadly. Some of the toughest enemies I’ve made only had 2 hearts.

#19

To add onto all the wonderful advice here, I highly suggest you consider using the idea of SPAWNERS and MINIONS or EXTRAS.

In general, a Spawner is something that… spawns… enemies. This could be a massive spider nest, a cave full of goblinoids, an interdimensional rift, or even just a forest full of endless wolves.

What Spawners allow you to do it introduce a large number of enemies in a staggered fashion - 3 goblins every 1d4 rounds, six shamblers every 2 rounds, a statue animates every 6 turns, whatever. Number of Foes & Interval

Minions, or extras in a film, are nameless hordes of creatures that while dangerous, aren’t up to the level of a standard combatant. In general, minions might do the same (or nearly the same) amount of damage as a regular creature of the same kind, but they can be defeated in a single successful hit; they have 1 HP. Consider using large numbers of minions to buffer BBEG battles, spawn off timers, and otherwise complicate the situation. (Six minion archers are easy to kill if you can get to them!)

TLDR: Minions allow you to add more monsters, like in the Mines of Moria, without totally overwhelming your players. You can add those minions organically with spawners (which may be tied to timers), or structurally by having a set number of them in an encounter or scene.

And remember, your ROOM DC is the godking of balancing. Hitting a BBEG on DC 10 is easier than hitting a minion on DC 18.