Hacking ICRPG Magic (three types of magic)

inspiration
question
#1

I’d like the three types of magic stats: Wisdom, Charisma, and Intelligence to feel distinct from each other mechanically. My idea was to have Wisdom be limited by spell burn, and Charisma limited by hp, and Intelligence limited by spell slots.
Do think these each feel different enough and make sense for each type of magic?
Do you have any advice on how to make these magic systems feel more different from each other?
Thanks!

#2

That’s a pretty elegant hack. I could see it fitting in to many genres / game worlds.

I may even have a good use for it myself!

ETA: As far as making them feel more different, I’d consider using different theme patterns for each:

INT (Spell Slots) themed by elements/ energy forms. Fire Mage, Ice Mage, Chaos Mage, etc.

WIS (Spell Burn) themed by function. Protector, Healer, Wayfinder, telekinetic, etc.

CHA (HP) themed by source of power. Blood Warlock, Nosebleeding Psychic, Mutant, etc.

#3

You and I are on similar brain waves. This is what I was thinking…

Int (Arcane Arts): Elemental, Evocation, Transmutation

Wis (Mysticism): Healing, Buffs, and Divination

Cha (Blood Magic): Enchantment, Illusion, and Necromancy.

#4

Include CON magic as well: gotta bend the elements! :muscle:

#5

Can you give me examples of what you are talking about? Bend elements like the Avatar? Is that different then what Arcane (Int) would be able to do?

#6

Int magic is magic that requires memory and recalling information, in my mind.
While Con magic usually asks of you to use muscular memory, like element-benders in Avatar, yeah!
Wis magic would be for sorcerers as they call on the feeling of magic flowing in their veins.
And Cha magic is, well, more of a conduit to the divine magic of the gods! :muscle:

#7

I’ve considered making it so that spells can only be stored in items that match that stat. For example, a book of languages could hold an Int spell, where a lute of persuasion would hold a Cha spell.
Does that work or does it over complicate an already beautifully simple system?

#8

STR, DEX, and CON Powers, yes! :muscle:

#9

What do you mean? Explain.

#10

Dex powers could be some telekinesis, perhaps? As for STR powers… mm, what would you tie it to?

#11

I was thinking more Herculean. I don’t have anything in mind at the moment, but if I had to start drawing inspiration I would dig around in pathfinder and d&d 4th edition for anything that sounded like it was talent and not necessarily connected to a weapon or magic item.

#12

Oooh! Nice! Just watch My Hero Academia for examples of super strength attacks. All Might & Midoriya are the power house/Supermen of that particular anime!
On another note, I’ve disliked Anime up until I saw MHA: the story telling is a little bit more in line with good western cartoons so I find it more watchable? More of a personal preference.

#13

It all depends on goals… and feel.

I like odd or interesting items holding particular spells. Bells, hats, eye glasses, masks, (musical)horns, knife, earring, perl, chronometer, feather.

As the world expands, the players will know. A shamanic staff with 3 feathers and a giant perl has those two spells on it or variations on those two spells.

It’s not to say that you don’t have cast spells, but they might be less potent.

#14

I like that.
The way I have understood the rules from Core, Worlds, and 3e is that a spell can be stored in any item.
Does that mean that if a player has ten equipped items that they can have ten spells equipped?
So, a fighter-type could have spells stored in his/her weapons and armor.
Do I have that right? Am I missing something?

#15

Your choice really.

One thing that Runehamer (icrpg creator) is very big on is spells are always rolled. So as per your original post, you are hacking a bit.

In as written ICRPG a spell is an item that is carried, like any item, it can be lost, stolen.

With QuickStart 2 powers and and abilities offers other options.

With the Magic book, I don’t recall at the moment…it is an inspiration book for me not a rule set I have ever used too much and don’t have on me.

#16

About using other stats

  • Memory is a bit fuzzy, but if I remember right, on D&D 3rd ed. the official psionics book had 1 “school” for each attribute. CON were for people changed there body in freak ways (mutations and polymorphs), STR were kind of power crystal wealdings swordsmen (like psionic bladelocks or spell swords), CHA for telepathy and mental domination, WIS for 6th sense types, and probably yes DEX for the telekinesis ones.
  • Picking some ideas and reskinning back to spell like thing could be nice. It had quite a few hits and misses. But one good thing about it is that all were very thematic and more specialized (instead of a do it all caster).

Some other ideas for mechanical differentiation and fluff:

  • some kind of physical exaustion (like D&D rage). Imagine Hulk going back into the “human” form, good for a polymorph / alteration type of magic (ex: STR or CON, though CON breaths blood magic also)
  • stress / fear / sanity for the divener you’re peeking into doors you should not open (ex: WIS)
  • obvious looking disease and foul effects for forbidden necromantic arts (the more spells in a row the more permanent and nasty effects - smell, bugs, rotten flesh, social skills HARD, things starts dying nearby (party rations getting rotten :bug: , other players getting sick) besides more immediate effects mentioned. The reaper himself will get closer each cast.
  • if CHA is associated with luck, then casting and recasting spells would push you luck, not only in terms of a bad effect roll, but actually giving cumulative -1 to next rolls. Like getting jinxed, and bad luck. Till you roll a nat 20 or a really bad 1.
#17

So, I like a lot of people’s comments. This is where I landed for my home brew, even though I hope this conversation continues.

Int spells: A player has a number of spell slots (three?) for each Int bonus. For example, a player with +3 Int gets nine spell slots that are regained at a long rest.

Wis spells: Spell burn. (When a player cast a Wisdom spell, they roll a d6 along with it. If a ‘1’ comes up, the spell is burned for three rounds.)

Cha spells: hit points…Sacrifice a hp to cast a attempt to cast a spell.

Physical stat spells (Str, Dex): This is for the player who says that they want to store the Invisibility spell in their Cloak of Shadows and want to roll Dex to cast the spell, or, utilize strength to cast a Sharpening spell that’s stored in a sword. I like this idea. These spells are one-and-done until a rest or recouped when the character uses an action with a Con check.

Thoughts?

#18

A player has a number of spell slots (three?) for each Int bonus. For example, a player with +3 Int gets nine spell slots that are regained at a long rest.

Three sounds a bit big, as a starter caster dude/gal will have 3-4 at the start (>9-12 per rest). May be 2? Or Like comulative 3+2+1+1+1… with extra slots with rings and other loot.

Wis spells: Spell burn. (When a player cast a Wisdom spell, they roll a d6 along with it. If a ‘1’ comes up, the spell is burned for three rounds.)

So if the player has 1 healing spell he has a 16% chance to burn it and 3 round he’s spaming it again… If it has 2 such spells then probably be spanning without consequence. Which reminds me, are you also using some kind of nasty effects for a natural 1? Maybe a have it really burned until some kind of action “praying/focusing is done”, like below.

Physical stat spells (Str, Dex): This is for the player who says that they want to store the Invisibility spell in their Cloak of Shadows and want to roll Dex to cast the spell, or, utilize strength to cast a Sharpening spell that’s stored in a sword. I like this idea. These spells are one-and-done until a rest or recouped when the character uses an action with a Con check.

Interesting. I like this idea. So a regain spells could be a similar mechanic to the healing system, you use a round to regain 1 single spell, but if in the middle of the battle/strained activity you roll for CON to see if you do it. Maybe it could work like a short rest mechanic, restore slots / recover burned spells up to your INT/WIS atribute until long rest. The CHA guys would really do a 1 HP as per normal healing.

#19

Your critique is helpful.
I use mercurial effects for natural ones. Each magic type has its own table of effects. When a player hits three critical fails on a spell they are cursed and can never use the spell again. The curse is something that can create an entire story arc to remedy.
Maybe HP is the way to go for each type. As I was DMing yesterday, still with HP as the only mechanic for magic, I was wondering I’m over complicating things and what I really want is for charisma and intelligence to have two distinct spell lists.

#20

This is what I’m going to try with my new group:

Intelligent Magic
Utilize arcane studies to manipulate the physics of the world.
Cast spells like Elemental magic, Transmutation, Evocation, Chronomancy.
Cost
Cast a spell with mana. The player uses yog crystals and other items to cast spells. If the player run out of mana then they’re SOL.
Thought Process
An Intelligence magic user is dependent on collecting and purchasing goods to utilize their magic because they are not naturally endowed with spells. The character has studied these spells and need some kind of external power source to cast them.

Charisma Magic
Your presence over powers the will of others and life itself.
Cast spells like Sleep, Enchantments, Illusions, Necromancy.
Cost
Pay 1 HP to cast a spell.
Though Process
The Charisma caster uses their own life force to cast a spell. They don’t depend on mana, but they might have a contract with a patron that grants power for just a nibble of their mortal soul.

Wisdom Magic
You bless (buff), heal, and transcend this world on a spiritual level.
Cast spells like Sharpen, Divine magic, Divination.
Cost
Spells are one-and-done, but you can use an action (pray to your gods or whatever) to roll a Wisdom check and recoup the spell.
Thought Process:
A Wisdom magic user is blessed with these spells. They are expected to be good stewards of their endowment. To regain back these spells one must unidentify with their worldly body and worship the wellspring of power whether that be god, nature, are otherworldly mindsight.

I think those each feel unique enough in combination with each having their own mercurial table for natural 1’s. My biggest concern is balance, but there are a couple ways of tweaking the dials.
Hopefully, none of these are too confusing. They seem simple enough.
I’m going to try this out and get everyone who’s interested updated here in the chat.
Thanks again for everyone who chipped in.