GUN effort in non-gun settings

#35

I agree with you completely. I thought that Gun effort was a needless addition to the game, and I don’t use it either. Besides, a sword does a hell of a lot more damage to the human body than a gun does IRL. (I actually know this from experience.)

#36

I haven’t read all the responses this post has received but you can differentiate between d6/d8: light/heavy, one-arm/two-arm, dex/str, tools/weapons, indigenous/alien, weapon/dwarven-smithed weapon or you can do something with weapon proficiency or something like when a player lands 5 criticals with a weapon it upgrades to d8.
Those are the ideas that pop off my head.

#37

I don’t think gun effort was needless addition. It helps to differentiate weapons a bit more in settings where traditional weapons and guns (or even energy weapons) exist.

#38

I was only commenting that making a pistol more lethal than a knife didn’t make sense to me because in actuality, they aren’t. Adding another die type just seems unnecessary. Of course, it’s a role-playing game and not a combat simulation, so preference should be the deciding factor for how things are done at the table. What’s fun for one gaming group isn’t necessarily fun for another. (That’s a good thing!)

That said, I really like DarkEnergy’s way of using different dice for weapon types, and I may start using that!

#39

Isn’t that going to be wildly different depending on the gun and the sword? Not to discredit your experience, but I feel like this is a very broad statement.

#40

If I’m going for distinction in weapon damage ( not often, but in certain genres I do) 2d4, D6+2, d8 are all similar but very different in feel. Sure min of the D6+2 is 3, min of the 2D4 is 2… but max is the same and mean is 4.5 ~5.5.
But they feel different. Adding that each d4 of 2d4 can be allocated to different targets adds a feel of flexibility.

However in the end we are arguing about 1.5 HP of difference per success. In the grand scheme who cares???

Your players may care a lot.
Offering D10 for 2 handed weapons vs 2d4 for 2 one handed weapons may make the game for some players.
Or 1 D6 + shield vs d10 vs 1d12 may seem like a lot to your players, but it’s not.

It’s more important that your players learn their place in a combat situation than who has max damage.

I’m very loose with “damage” so I’m not sure I’m the best judge.

#41

I keep it simple.
d6 weapons
d8 magical/special weapons
d10 magic

#42

I really like this hack; seems the simplest. Then just use the tags do differentiate between Light and Heavy… very elegant.

We’re terrible at our table in utilizing tags and this will definatly help us change that.

#43

I agree; the introduction of Gun effort has yielded one of the most surprising collateral effects of the changes in Master Edition for me, bumping magic and energy effects up to a D10 and effectively granting them a +1 bonus (5.5 average roll instead of 4.5) and giving every magic attack a 2-point advantage over a normal weapon attack. My quick fix to preserve my current medieval fantasy game—which doesn’t have firearms or gunpowder—under ICRPG Second Edition rules has been to keep Magic effort rolls on a D8 and introduce Gun effort rolls on a D6 if/when I ever need to. (Would I rather get shot with a 9mm or hit with a katana? That’s a tough break either way…) There are many great things about Master Edition that offset the age-old problem in D&D of “linear fighters vs. quadratic wizards”; I think keeping Magic effort on the D8 remains a viable alternative if your setting doesn’t involve or focus on the use of firearms or modern technology, allowing all martial and magical classes to still have plenty of juice during the game.

#44

Your points are more than valid. If in the middle of an adventure…keep it as is.

But next adventure, incorporation of the new is not so hard.

#45

Could use d6 “Casual” weapons that you can get away with carrying around town and also d8 “Martial” weapons of war that would be frown upon if wearing out around civilian town.

#46

I prefer the D10 MAGIC EFFORT, but I use the Spell Burn rules. Imho it higher die is balanced with the danger of using magic.

#47

What is the Fray Die? I’m not familiar with this?

#48

Would you count a bard being a singer by profession a “tool”?

#49

I like everyone’s input here, but I gotta say @NnelGdaBandit This is probably my preferred approach. In many action movies and even video games to a certain extent, the weapon is only as deadly as the user i.e. John Wick with a friggin pencil.

Sure when I do run modern games adding a few slight bonuses like extra d6 or whatnot would add to the danger between a handgun and an assault rifle, but I think my philosophy is that it would be small changes to differentiate the types of weapons.

Anything substantial would be more about the narrative and circumstantial uses like you explained in your post and at that point I would add more unique features like using a different stat for damage and so on.

#50

sounds reasonable, I’d go for it

#51

This mechanic is inspired by Kevin Crawford’s Godbound!

Fray Effort

Fray Effort is D8 and rolling it during combat is like a bonus action! The player does not need to roll a D20 before rolling his Fray die! This kind of Effort represents the savage melee, pushing opponents aside, and cleaving through hordes of monsters!

Lesser Foes

Fray Effort only works against Lesser Foes. Lesser Foes are enemies with up to three (3) hit points, and as you can guess you can spawn a lot of them during combat to make it more intense. Lesser Foes are cobbled up into Mobs, and Mobs have simple rules:

  • Lesser Foes always try to remain adjacent to another one of their ally. If a Mob is split up, its cohesion and morale drops substantially (if you even play with morale or role-play it)
  • The Mob can make one attack (or more if it is made up of particularly vicious creatures of course) against every single opponent it is in range of during its turn. Beware of ranged Mobs.
  • Mob saving throws either cancel out damage or effect or halve the quantity of Lesser Foes affected by damage or effect.

Hold & Cleave

When a player rolls Fray Effort, he can hold the result of its roll until its next turn and spend it freely until then. If any amount of Fray Effort would overhwelmingly crush a Lesser Foe, the rest of the damage jumps to an adjacent Lesser Foe in the range and direction of the weapon used by the character.

For example, Joan wields a long-handled flail and swings it through four Kobolds (2 hit points each) standing right in front of her. She rolls 1D8+3 for a result of 10 which is enough to fling their corpses across the room and kill the next Kobold who would dare approach her until her next turn.

Some GMs might have thougher restrictions as to when or how a character can make a Fray Effort roll, but frankly you’re playing a badass fantasy hero with a mechanic meant to feel like that. So, sweeping that halberd through Goblins may not be realistic but it’s cool as hell and that’s the whole point of it.

What do you think?

God speid! o7

High "Level" ICRPG
#52

This is pretty cool! In the past when I have lesser mobs of any kind I’ll just narrate or have the PCs narrate their savagery. I’ll definitely consider using this when I get my copy of ICRPG.

Thank you!

#53

You’re most welcome! :blush: Good luck and have fun!

#54

Meanwhile I’m using GUN effort for the following:

  • explosives such as dynamite
  • fire-based weapons (e.g. bow with burning arrows)