DM-Driven vs Player-Driven Games


#1

For the TL/DR crowd, skip to the conclusion at the end.

I see this debate from time to time about DM-Driven vs. Player-Driven games, and generally folks fall into one of the two camps and are opposed to the other. As Jason Scranton put it, there appears to be a tug-of-war between each approach. So, which is BETTER? For the record, let me say: there is nothing wrong with either way of playing. Please game the way you want to game, but as I set forth later on, you’re generally better off running a mostly DM-Driven game, at least at the start and end of a campaign, especially if you are a newer DM.

But why? PROBLEMS come when where are DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS about the game from the DM and player perspectives. If the DM wants to run a DM-Driven game but the players are all about a Player-Driven game, then the players will cry that they were “railroaded” the whole time. On the other hand, if a DM wants to run a Player-Driven game, but the players prefer a DM-Driven game, then the players will feel as though the whole session is completely aimless with nothing to do. In either case, where there is a mismatch of DM approach and player expectations, then the campaign may fall apart, and that’s no good. Similarly, DMs may become extremely frustrated if their players don’t like the campaigns they are in. And, as we all try to get better at the DM craft, those are scenarios we all want to avoid.

So, WHY does this mismatch between DM approach and player expectations matter? Well, let’s delve into the issue just a little deeper.

A DM-Driven game is one where the DM develops the story. He or she has a strong sense of the plot, story events, direction, complications, and most importantly, the hooks that compel players to action. You’ll know a DM with this style when the action and events of the world keep compelling players from one “scene” to the next, almost like in a movie. An example would the king summoning the players to the great hall and sending them on a quest to save the princess. Note how this type of game has a clear purpose and a direction for the players to go.

People who prefer a DM-Driven game will appreciate the pace of events and not having to do the mental “lift” of generating events for their character, as their character will be thrust into the events of the world. They won’t have to spend mental energy trying to decide where to go next or what to do – the choices will be obvious – and they’ll never feel aimless. Instead, they will generally feel heroic as the forces of evil smash against them, and the characters build success. The downside for this type of game is that players can start to feel bored “jumping through hoops” the DM creates, and players may begin to feel frustrated if they can’t add to the game and are only reacting to the events the DM presents. DMs who do not naturally enjoy this style may feel frustrated “constantly having to throw things at players.”

On the other hand, a Player-Driven game is one where the DM fleshes out the world some but then sits back and allows the players to generate the story, plot, events, complications, and hooks, usually as a result of a character’s background, wants, needs, and motivations. You’ll know a DM with a Player-Driven style because he or she will ask questions like, “So where would you like to go next?” and then leave it up to the players to generate the action. An example would be putting players in the wilderness and then describing four locations where they could go.

People who prefer a Player-Driven game will relish the focus or spotlight on their characters and their ability to help craft the story. They’ll appreciate a sandbox-style world and frequently will enjoy characters who come from humble beginnings and then grow or transform over time. These types of players enjoy ferreting out mysteries and appreciate the creative freedom to take an adventure in a new direction, especially if a component of a character’s backstory gets explored or developed. The downside for this type of game is that when players are not compelled to action at times, they can quickly become bored; overwhelmed with possibilities; and frustrated that nothing meaningful is happening. They will complain that there is no action happening or adversity. You’ll know when this scenario is occurring because players will “generate their own fun” by acting out in murder-hobo or erratic ways or taking the game in a direction you definitely did not anticipate. Odds are, if players are “generating their own fun” in this fashion, the DM hasn’t given them something more worthwhile to do, or at least hasn’t given them clear direction. DMs who do not naturally enjoy this style may feel frustrated that their players are taking events in a direction they did not want or anticipate, especially if their prep doesn’t cover the direction of events.

How can we avoid this mismatch of DM style and player expectations? Well, the answer is tied to a very important axiom for DMs, and one that sometimes gets overlooked: Being a DM is an act of service. As the DM, you are responsible for thinking about your players before the campaign starts, figuring out what they want to achieve/demonstrate, and then finding ways to pull your players into fun.

If you aren’t taking this crucial step to help your players before your campaign starts and giving some thought to this topic, then I humbly submit you are not doing your complete job as a DM, and you are leaving your success as a DM up to random happenstance, which is no good. You have to be purposeful about how you approach starting a campaign. If you start to see warning signs of the possible tension between expectations described above, you may not understand why things are tanking. Moreover, you may start to get negative feedback from your players, and you may not fully appreciate where you missed the mark.

As an aside, if you do start to get feedback along the above lines, it’s not the time to get defensive. It’s a great time to get CURIOUS and start probing your players with questions. Odds are, your issue is a difference of expectations between the current style of the game and your players’ expectations. Remember, it’s your job to help your players have fun, so get curious and find out what’s bugging them. Their answers are a gift in terms of helping you tailor the experience for them. But I digress.

All of that being said, and despite that fact that there is no right or wrong way to play, I believe it’s always better to use a DM-Driven approach when starting a campaign (unless you know for 100% certain everyone is all-in on a player-driven game). Why? Well, when you sit players at a table for the first time, they have a rough idea of their character, but that’s it. One of the worst things you can do to begin a campaign is say something like, “So, okay, you’re in an apartment (tavern, town, wilderness, whatever). What do you do?” Players will just look at you and shrug. They don’t know that early in a game. They just know they’re playing a fighter or wizard. Players who prefer DM-Driven games will respond in a negative way to this type of beginning, maybe voicing something like, “I’ll guess I’ll just sit here until something happens.” If you are of the Player-Driven DM persuasion, and you expect players to generate the fun, you may be waiting a long time. In that regard, it’s always better to give your players something important to do. If your players are voicing things like, “I don’t even know where to go next or what to do next,” then you have not given your players clear purpose and direction.

Further, unless you have players who are 100 percent all-in on a Player-Driven approach, not a lot of players will know what they can and can’t do in the world. Can you just up and leave for a different city? Can you try to woo an attractive girl or guy? Beat up a town guard? Steal from a merchant? So, begin your games as DM-Driven. Hammer your players with story, force events on them, throw them hook after hook to compel them to become entangled in the world and a huge mess of a story. Stoke their sense of outrage and get them moving in a clear direction, especially plunging forward toward some clearly defined big bad. And make sure it’s clear. If you are going to leave clues or bread crumbs, for goodness sake, don’t leave only one. It’s human psychology folks. People have to hear things three times before they truly stick, and if you don’t believe me, Google The Alexandrian’s Three-Clue Rule and read about how leaving mystery in your game can turn into an unmitigated disaster.

I was talking with an experienced DM just last night about an adventure he was working on, and the first thing he said to me was, “I have a rough idea; now I just need a HOOK to get the players involved.” And I cannot stress that point enough. You have to prime players for the world around them. Throw players in the action early by giving them a clear hook which gives them PURPOSE and DIRECTION. If you haven’t seen the RFE video where Scranton and I talk about putting players in peril early and skipping things like commuting and walking through the desert or wilderness, the video further expounds on this theory of starting your campaign off right by thrusting players into events. And if you aren’t providing a strong DM hook, instant action, direction, and a compelling reason for the players to sally forth toward the big bad, just be prepared for an aimless and meandering game until you do and potential player pushback.

If you need further convincing, think about every good movie you’ve ever seen. The Avengers doesn’t start with Dr. Strange sailing around the world, taking a hike through a canyon, and searching four nearby cities for clues about what might be wrong with the world, as he tries to determine who and where the big bad is. He doesn’t have to ferret out what might be wrong in the universe by piecing together a bunch of small clues. Instead, trouble finds him quickly. Suddenly, Manhattan is being torn to shreds by aliens who are trying to steal his most prized possession and who lead a trail straight towards Thanos. If you give players this type of purpose AND a literal direction to go, you’ll never go wrong starting a campaign.

Once players are entangled in a huge mess of a story, then you can back off and allow your players to drive the action. By then, they’ll know a few NPCs, maybe one of whom who has double-crossed them. They will know of a few locations and what might be happening in those locations. Someone may want to explore a portion of their backstory or maybe even seek out a fabled weapon that might help them. They will have a clear sense of some bosses or maybe even the big bad and where they might be located. You’ll know the time is right to transition from DM-Driven to a Player-Driven campaign when the players start showing up each session knowing EXACTLY where they want to go and what they want to do. Players will begin to make those comments at the end of sessions, and your clue will be that they won’t shut up about where and what they want to do. When they begin saying those things, pay attention to what they are saying. At that point, you can step back some and allow your players to dictate where they go next and explore some possibilities in the world. What you are doing, in essence, is easing your players into a more Player-Driven game at that point.

Once things begin to build to a conclusion at the end of a Player-Driven arc, then take back control and have events start coming at them again with clear purpose and direction. At this point, you can base these new events on actions players have taken. Thus, by the time players reach a climax to the campaign, the ending is a blend of both styles.

If you follow this methodical 3-Step approach to running a campaign (start DM-Driven, ease into Player-Driven when the players are ready, and then end DM-Driven), I can almost guarantee that your campaigns will be much more successful.

Conclusion

  • There is no right or wrong approach between DM-Driven or Player-Driven play, but you’re generally better off with a DM-Driven campaign, at least at the start and end of a campaign.

  • If you start with a fully Player-Driven campaign, unless everyone is on board, be prepared for your game to become aimless and meandering. Note that players who expect DM-Driven games will give you pushback.

  • Be receptive to feedback and become curious when players are raising concerns. You’ll probably find that the issue is one of expectations, and your job as the DM is to help your players have fun.

  • I generally find that it’s good to have a strong, DM-Driven introduction that consists of giving the story direction. Throw as many hooks as you can at the players to give them purpose and direction.

  • Once players are entangled in a huge mess of a story and requesting to go certain places, then you can back off and allow your players to drive the action. When they hit a conclusion, begin throwing events at them again.

  • Finish your campaign with a more DM-Driven approach.

  • If you intend to use clues toward a big bad or location (because your players do not have a clear direction), you have to give them at least three that point in the same direction.


Rethinking how not to "railroad" players
Do players know their expectations?
#2

Wow, just wow… this was so eloquently worded. I can’t agree with you more. Players don’t choose a direction right at the beginning of a campaign… they really can’t (unless they are working in a highly fleshed out and familiar campaign world that they’ve played in before) because they have no idea what’s out there. If you got knocked out by some unforeseen force and woke up in a bar in some foreign land with 4 other people you may or may not know, how confidently would you stride forward? This is the situation at many gaming tables. If you start in a generic place with no immediate threat, there is no impetus for action. I love to use the medical triage metaphor here. A doctor knows what to do immediately if the problem is obvious, like a big shard of glass stuck in your arm… if the problems are too subtle, then there will be a lot of monotonous poking, prodding, and question asking to get to the bottom of it. Sorry for my long response to your long post… tldr; give your players a car wreck, not a head cold.


#3

Excellent write-up. It’s hard to see anything objectionable with anything you’re saying here.
I’m curious about your thoughts on an optional second character sheet page that would contain space for spells and ahem other mechanics, while also containing a space for character motivation/belief/goal statements.

I see a lot of great RPGs contain space for codified RP details. They always connect them to game mechanics, but for ICRPG I would want them unconnected. Just a formal space for players to express some core features of their character, features that could (and should) change during a campaign, and which if communicated to the DM could inform them in some very useful ways. Anyways, I would like to hear your thoughts on that.


#4

One of the best analogies I have seen. I will probably use it going forward and love that you could summarize my whole rambling post in one impactful sound bite.


#5

Hit me up with a PM. I’d to hear more about what you’re thinking.


#6

Excellent write up.

Just adding something for GM that are new or playing with new players.

Meandering or risk adverse adventurers is the only hard counter to the DM driven game style. In exp based games this becomes an issue as they are still leveling but don’t have the gear needed. In ICRPG this is less of an issue.
I have not had this issue as a GM or player. But have seen it. In reality it is the finest form of sandbox. It’s an exploratory venture into a game world. Great into to the world, terrible way to play an eventful heroic campaign.
As a new GM or new to the group GM. Watch out for this with experienced players. I’d accept it as it flows or put a bounty on the players heads and start an elongated chase. Use this while you think up a way to get the characters emotionally invested in something. Or make it a tour of your world.

I share this because experienced players are often bored with the standard game and want to “mess” with the GM. It also bleeds into the rest of the group when they encounter survivability. But doing the unexpected really ends up being the cowardly. After a few sessions of this, you can start upping the risk/reward options to try and get things back on track.

Also you can simply use very scene to scene events with a few player decision points intermixed to move your story along.

Just be prepared for the players to refuse to save the princess. Or leave when they recover the ancient artifact and not return the artifact to the lord in the town.


#7

I’m a huge advocate of player driven play, but yeah I really get where you’re coming from. You need a world full of things to do, with lots of stuff going on (either focused on one major in setting shakeup or several) for the players to want to get involved in–but which doesn’t have anything to do with them. It’s the headlines in their newspaper.

It’s also the Cosmic Background Radiation that serves as the backdrop for the individual character’s personal agendas and goals. It’s always there ticking away giving a sense of life to the game and churning out events and opportunities the characters to use however they want.

Or, if they don’t have a particular interest in taking the reigns to guide the story in a player driven direction–they can also serve as the default “adventure”.


#8

Beautifully written, dude. I love this deep dive into the differences and similarities in the play styles. :herocoin:

:point_up_2:That’s a solid gold Knowledge Bomb right there.


#9

I just want to give a shoutout to this statement too, well said, my dude.


#10

@Alex Great write-up brother. As always your insight and eloquence shines brightly.

I’d like to add a small TL;DR of my own.

If your group consists of players that have different expectations regarding the game, you will eventually have problems due to expectation mismatch. Try to make sure that everybody in your group shares the same values, or at least make sure they agree on the type of game play before starting a campaign (session 0 or even before that). DM-driven vs Player-driven is only one aspect of this. There are multiple other axes that define the tone of the game like RP-heavy vs combat-heavy, murder-hoboing vs rational behavior, mystery-heavy vs no-mystery, crunch-heavy vs rules-light etc.

Or in other words: Birds of a feather flock together. Try to group with like minded people.


#11

Exactly so. Every single keystroke.


#12

Dang. Just wow. This is super helpful and immensely awesome as a semi-new GM to see things laid out on a larger scale like this.

For certain games I believe you can do Player-Driven right out of the gate, Burning Wheel, for example. But that’s because in those games the group generates the setting and situation right at the beginning. Not just the GM. The group decides what kind of car wreck they are making together, and then makes characters that all are rushing towards that wreck, generating mayhem and drama.

For many games though, and especially for new GMs, this post is right on!
Thanks so much. Take a hero coin. :herocoin: (If I can give one?)


#13

I’ll take all the hero coins I can get! I need them.

Your point about certain systems lending themselves to Player-Driven play is spot on, because they build the early scene creation into the game setup or character creation.

Just remember, though, that the system really doesn’t matter, ultimately, for this equation. You can player Player-Driven games or DM-Driven games (or a blend) using any system or mechanics. I mention this point because some people get caught up with the “system.” Like, I’ve seen people say things like, “Well, I can’t role play because of this system.” And I’m like, “the system has nothing to do with that.”


#14

“They have no idea what’s out there…”

Is the worse thing I want to hear when I begin my session as a GM because I am a player-driven campaigner: I really enjoy when my players mold the world with their ideas during character creation!

To me, a paladin is not cookie-cut in the book. You tell me what kind of paladin you want to be and I’ll adjust the world in consequence: are you a witch-hunter paladin that masters fireballs or are you a tool of justice tormented into the role by the so-called benefactors of mankind?

Or perhaps your paladin order is made up of bodyguards for the king and his princes? Should I put you in charge of the safety of such prince at the beginning of the campaign? Why not? What’s fun? What do you want??

However, I absolutely agree with the message above: I have definitely made the mistake, many times as well, of giving an open-world to my players and expecting them to just… go for it and have fun. But as it turns out, they are GM-driven, they much prefer to be thrown into hoops & loops to enjoy the story, when the GM knows where he’s going. And when the GM is clueless… well… the results are catastrophic.

So yes, I will absolutely correct this way of thinking and adjust for my group. I will throw more hooks at them, something huge to guide them in that direction and when, eventually, they will have taken the initiative… I will let the current… flow! :sunglasses:


#15

I think you can explore those questions together in a great session zero, which retains that player-driven piece you appreciate so much. Just take good notes and then save the tasty morsels for potential threads to explore later on in the campaign. Your players will thank you at the end for your approach. For example, I played in a game where I wrote simply, “on a quest to find his brother’s killer.” And then Hank weaved that nugget into our campaign. I thought Hank was a freaking genius when my character got to find and bring justice to his brother’s murderer.


#16

Definitely need more session 0s at my gaming group. ^^’

Usually they leave their characters open-ended when I GM… and when I am the player I make sure to give my character a goal to accomplish… only for the GM to usually… ignore it. XP

The problem I have is that they quite pedant… so talking to them is like talking to a brick, sometimes… :confused:


#17

@BlazingPolyhedron You might be able to draw them out of that, by asking having them describe the world in the first few sessions.
‘In the distance you see you are approaching a crossroads with a shrine with offerings’
GM to player 1 “who is the shrine to?”
GM to player 2 “what does the shrine look like?”
GM to player 3 “what are the offerings left on the shrine?”
GM to all the players “In what way do your characters acknowledge the shrine”

You’ll need a journal of some type, and this can start setting the tone of the game. Write fast or use shorthand of some type.
If they make it to an evil god…this is going dark.
If they add flowers to the traveler gods shrine, a nice heroic adventure.
If they make it plain and walk right past. A godless, dreary place.
If they steal from or pee on the shrine, that had heaps of gold on it. A place that is lawful, pías, peaceful and powerful, your players are in for it if they have a hair out of place when addressing an authoritative figure.

You can guide them a bit with describing, but it might get them more interactive and interested.


#18

That is a really interesting way to begin a campaign. Even better than:’‘Roll for Initiative!’’ since you get to know your players as the game begins.

It’s a very neat suggestion, I will definitely add that to my journal! I know I’ve been looking for a better journal than a bunch of 48 page notebook. I just don’t like the that bends in the middle, you know? XP

I have been using the technic to divide my attention and questions to my players… they seem to respond well to that!