Destroying player loot

#1

In the spirit of giving players new loot and messing with their feelings, what are your favorite ways to destroy or break players loot in ICRPG?

I am rereading Core and Altered state but don’t remember any specific advice on this topic (though I am sure its in there, I just can’t recall off the top of my head).

Right now I am thinking that when a player rolls a natural 1 there is a chance of breakage (or when an enemy rolls a nat 20 against them). For items near and dear to their heart I might give the thing some durability points (probably in the form of the OSR usage die mechaninc; an item has a d6, when it is damaged roll the d6. On a 1 or 2 it gets lowered to a d4. At 0 it is destroyed.)

#2

In CORE, look at the entries for What Were Once Men in the Doomvault mission and Corroders in the Monster section for inspiration.

For Corroders, generally I telegraph the acid all over the cavern, and then it’s simply: if you take damage, make a random roll and lose that piece instantly. For example, if you have loot in 8 slots on your sheet, roll a d8 and lose the item in that slot. Or you can run them like in the book with a threshhold: if you take over 5 damage in a single hit, lose random gear.

I have also made players roll for random gear loss after a fall from a dizzying height, whenever they end up unexpectedly in water, or whenever they end up in muck or quicksand. Items have a tendency to get lost in those scenarios.

There is also a chance if characters get captured (say, on a wipe) that they might lose all of their gear or they might not get it all back if they recover their stash (the monsters took one or two items).

Characters can lose items on a blunder, and they can have items break or be lost if the items have a tag like brittle or volatile, or have items be broken if they use the items in a way the item wasn’t designed. In my recent campaign, one of my players used THE Sword, the most powerful artifact in the game, as a pry bar. That didn’t end well, but it did prompt a fun quest to reforge the sword.

Finally, having monsters that steal loot like pilfering raccoons (think rat thieves in Borderlands) is a fun scenario. Every time the monsters make contact, lose a random piece of loot. If players can kill the mob before it leaves the board, they can get the loot back. With enough of these things zig-zagging across the board, that is a fun encounter in and of itself.

#3

Excellent suggestions! Thanks a bunch.

#4

You could add an informal (or formal!) durability system to items. If a player is constantly smashing things and people with a double-handed sword, you might want to throw a few “Jeez Greg, your sword is getting more blunt by the minute”. And if Greg doesn’t do anything about it (aka repair, use something else…), when it seems appropriate, just describe how his sword breaks in half after a big attack. No need to wait for a critical failure to destroy it. In my opinion, it’s even more interesting to break it after a huge successful hit: “Jeez Greg, that orc sure is split into two now with this 21 damage. So is your zweihander, by the way.”

As a DM, it’s not always easy to keep track of what items are getting used a lot, but as long as it is justified and it doesn’t happen out of the blue (i.e. you gave warning of what’s coming), destruction by wear is perfectly natural. And it’s not necessarily the end of the journey for that item, it could still be repaired, given enough time :slight_smile:

#5

I would definitely not do this. There’s no way I am going to penalize a player at the moment of a huge success. That’s a huge limbic brain hit and how you lose trust as a DM.

#6

I think that is an interesting idea, but I would make it more codified. Give it a tag like “Rusty” or “Fragile”.

On a critical hit roll percentile dice with a pre-determined chance that the item can break.

I agree with Alex that I would not spring that on a player out of the blue, but I would make it a codified thing. A player might pick up a rusty sword for now until they get something better, or maybe they got captured and it is the best thing they can find. That adds a bit of tension and drama to using it until they get a better thing.

#7

At our table, whenever an enemy scrolls a critical hit on a player they lose a piece of equipped loot that the player gets to pick. We also play that Ultimate rolls get re-rolled if less than 4.

This has kept loot cycling in and out through out our campaign and we still play with acid spitting loot destroy enemies as well.

We also have a guy with a repair hammer who fixes the broken loot when he gets a chance.

#8

It’s not about penalizing the huge crit. It’s about breaking an item that’s already in bad condition from bashing countless doors and monsters. The player (let’s say it’s still Greg) did kill the enemy, the combat might be over after that hit, so it’s not even a huge deal. Greg got to have his great moment destroying the enemy, but not caring about his damaged sword cost him his weapon. It’s just putting a bit of sense into the situation.

The exact opposite of that is like in Dungeon World, when players get XP after a failure. They end up in a crappy spot, BUT they get stronger later. It’s a silver lining, it puts some positivity into a negative moment. (I’d recommend doing just that with ICRPG’s mastery system. Instead of granting Mastery on a 20, grant it on a 1! Otherwise, it’s just win-win: you get a crit AND a bonus. While Tom, rolling 1s all night, is having the worst time of his life. Plus, he got dumped, so let’s give him a break.)

Coming back at Greg, rolling 20s like a madman and not caring about his weapons: that player hacks everything, doesn’t care, and ends up breaking his three weapons in one session. But he still carried the whole game combat-wise! I simply put a bit of negativity into his insane positive rolls, AND I did it for a reason (not taking care of his weapons). It didn’t happen out of the blue. I don’t see how he could lose faith in me as a DM for that.

#9

Also an incongruous limbic hit.

#10

Hahaha, so you say. It’s just a simple matter of “learning from past failures” that becomes “get XP for your character”. To me, it’s very harmonious.

#11

You already gave the answer. You simply put a bit of negativity into his positive rolls. How you explain it doesn’t matter. Some people do mind this kind of stuff and some don’t, so it really depends on your group. But beware because some players are polite and seem to shrug it off even though they secretly hate it. Some of my players have sticks in their assses and would be angry with me if I were to do this. Yours might not but why take the risk?

Just keep in mind that no matter how you sugar coat or justify it, you still break someone’s weapon on a 20. That is counterintuitive just like @Alex said. Yes, your explanation makes sense but that’s generally not how people see things; you break expectations because in d20 games people tend to associate natural 20 with amazing success.

There is no hard rule that it should only be this way but there is a simple psychological reason behind it. You can just as well wait for the next natural 1 (or a natural roll of less than 2,3,4,5…, provided you inform the player during the game) to break the said weapon. Same outcome, but without any possible complications. Why not use this method? Because the said player doesn’t roll any 1s?

Also a side note: “Jeez Greg, your sword is getting more blunt by the minute” doesn’t inform the player that the weapon will break at all, much less on a natural 20. Gettin blunt is very different from getting damaged.

If I were to do something like this, I’d probably say: “Hey bro, if you keep hammering enemies like this without trying to repair your weapon, it might break on a critical success or failure”. This way there is some uncertainty when the weapon will break (unless someone rolls an INT CHECK or something to learn how many crits the weapon can withstand), which will add tension.

Obviously you are free to run your games however you want. Just be careful.

#12

Since we play with kids I tend to be very lenient with this BUT I play where if a player goes down they have until the death counter runs out to get to them stabilized and can heal them by normal means. If they don’t then they can’t be healed by any means for the encounter and something bad happens, normally they wake up to a lost or broken Loot. Most weapons have health as well and if they keep doing dumb things (smashing rocks with swords) or roll 1’s they can take damage which will need to be repaired or It will break.

#13

Now that said, adding an element of challenge from something like this could be really fun. To take the example–you split the monster for two hearts of damage, but now the zweihander is firmly lodged in his midsection and more monsters are inbound. Do you switch to a secondary weapon to hold them off until you can take the time to pull the zweihander out? Do you run off with the hope to come back for it? Do you just stand there and pull until you get the effort needed and brave whatever attacks come your way? Do you toss the dead body over your shoulder and pack it out like a deer? Any of these sound like they’d take the game to a FUN tense place.

#14

Sure. I am all for tension. But I would do it the other way to keep player fun high.

Player: “Oh no. I rolled a one. Guess I fail.”
Me: “Absolutely. You fail spectacularly with a huge, out of control swing. Roll your damage.”
Player: “16!”
Me: “Oh yeah! You swing recklessly, and you cleave the thing in two! But now your sword is stuck inside of its carcass!”

That’s far better than:

Player: “Yes! Nat 20 baby!!!”
The Table: “Yeeesssss!!!” everyone high fives
Me: “Sweeet! Roll your damage.”
Player: “16!”
Me: “Awesome! With a perfect strike, you cleave the beast in two!”
Player: “Yeah!!!”
Me: “Also, take a point in STR for that perfect blow.”
Player: “Sick!”
Me: “But now your sword is stuck.”
Player: “Wait. What?”

#15

I really like that idea! Especially if it is not a serious punishment so much as them having to make a tactical choice for a single round. Like, they can risk taking the time to pull the sword out (I would give them an auto success if they waste their turn doing it) but those monsters are coming so their friends need to supply cover.

@Alex I like bother those options haha. I think over all if you are creating cool scenes in the moment it works. Example #1 would be a great time to let a player spend their hero coin or to just reward good RP. Example #2 would be a fun time to offer them a choice; you are so badass that right now you can gain a point of strength but your sword gets stuck, OR you can keep a hold of your sword now and get a free attack.