Bigger Groups and Wasted Turns

question
#1

Hey everyone! I’ve recently been playing games with larger groups of around 6-7 players, which is quite a step up from my usual 3-4 player sessions. With these bigger groups, I’ve encountered an issue that, while present in smaller groups, wasn’t as noticeable.

The problem revolves around “wasted turns” during encounters. In some situations, a few players manage to solve the encounter, while the rest end up sitting idle, either wasting time, passing their turns, or attempting to replicate the actions of other players (e.g., two players trying to pick the same lock).

I’ve thought of a couple of solutions, but I’d love to hear any additional suggestions you might have.

  1. Encounter Design: By focusing on the core problems of an encounter, I’ll try to add more objectives and challenges to keep all players (6+ PCs) engaged. This approach doesn’t require any new mechanics or rules.
  • For example, in an encounter where players need to pick a lock while the roof is collapsing, they could also stabilize the walls to buy more time or fend off a snake-like monster creeping down the wall.
  1. Pass Die: Inspired by the Fury Die mentioned in the core rules, I’m considering a similar mechanic to incentivize passing turns when a player can’t contribute meaningfully to the encounter.

  • When a player passes their turn, they receive a +1 bonus to any check of their choice. This bonus increases by +1 each time they pass their turn.

  • This approach recycles an existing mechanic and encourages players to pass turns if they’re unsure how to be helpful during an encounter.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on these potential solutions! Have any of you experienced issues with balancing encounters for a large number of players? Please share your experiences and suggestions!

#2

I remember a guy designing encounters with Hearts? So like, the encounter itself had Hearts rather than dividing them by enemy and objective? Why not try this out instead? :3

#3

Thanks, I will try it. I am cautious not to turn everything into effort, but I see it working when they make their way through caverns, or mazes (as travel effort) or when doing something bigger like repairing their Warp Shell

#4

You are all over it. If players don’t have enough to do, it’s a DM problem: you didn’t give them enough to do. So, you are 100% correct that you need to look at your encounter design.

For the record, I usually won’t run a game for more than five folks. Once you get into that territory, you’re almost better off splitting into two groups (an awesome problem to have, btw). But if you keep a larger group, just know that your “workload” as an DM increases.

One of the DM tools I might recommend, and one @Dennis_Smithson is so great at, is forcing players to split up between two objectives on the same board/map. Over here, the ritual will be complete. Over there, the bad guys are killing innocents one by one. And between all that is a horde of zombies. Now, players have to work hard to solve all the things, and they can’t overwhelm any one thing because of their numbers. I like this type of solution because it also makes the players feel good as a team. “If you guys can stop the ritual, we’ll go save the innocents.”

But the key is to always overload them. At the same time these events are happening, there is a timer on both. In 1d4 rounds on the left cliff face, another protection rune will be destroyed. In 1d4 rounds on the right cliff face, another townsfolk will get thrown off the cliff. And don’t forget the press of the zombie horde. It’s not an afterthought. The bad guys want to win. Somehow, when you overload players with problems, they amazingly find a way to overcome.

Also, don’t forget a chest or two tucked away in inconvenient corners of the map. The loot monkeys in the group might peel off, which is fine. They risk additional danger and lack of support for the larger objectives.

Finally, if players are idle, they should be taking a recovery action. If your players aren’t doing that, that tells me you probably aren’t keeping them ragged enough. With 6 to 7 players, go nuts on encounter design. Bump all the enemies up to D10 damage. Increase enemy numbers. Add objectives. Raise the target number. Put obstacles in their way, and make them deal with environmental issues. Force them to make a check to avoid damage every round. In short, go be (more of) a terror to behold. Then, celebrate their successes and have a plan if they wipe. With that in mind, you can proceed without fear in terms of really mashing the pedal down on them.

#5

Oh damn. This is what I needed. As said in smaller groups I didn’t have to much of an issue, but I was unable to convert my encounters to bigger groups. The simultaneous objectives were the thing I needed to do that.

I once managed to somehow handle my big group by splitting the party in a conventional sense. That also worked, but I didn’t make the jump to do the same inside an encounter.

Thanks a lot :slight_smile:

#6

Hey Stagmir,

I regularly run for groups of 8-12 players. I think I can share some table-tested advice!

Firstly, the other comments here are great. If an encounter is “set piece”, meaning it’s supposed to have some gravity to the narrative, you should try to design them such that there are multiple objectives. These could be simultaneous (you guys secure the hostages while we take out the shaman), or they could be sequential (rogue, sneak past those guards and climb that wall, then let a rope down so that we can flank them). You can also mix simultaneous and sequential - but make sure you’ve got a solid grip on the mechanics at play and/or have your reference material ready (index cards with timers, etc.).

You can also do encounter phases. The classic example is you beat on the big-bad-monster until it’s at 50% health, then it enrages and gains a new set of abilities. These phases don’t have to just be monster mechanics though. After a timer, or a set condition (50% hp on boss, half the goblins routed, a failed morale check, the explosives go off, the players reach what they thought was an objective, etc.), (1) the monsters’ abilities, tactics, or goals change; (2) the environment becomes more or less disruptive/challenging; (3) the environment changes like a bridge collapsing into what is now a rushing river chase/survival that then ends up on a beachhead; (4) a boon is unlocked (TREATS in ICRPG); and so on.

You should also consider the utility and value of encounters that do not engage all the players! The rogue is making multiple checks and the rogue’s player is actively solving dilemmas as they scale the tower to steal the painting. The priest is performing a Turn Undead type ability, or trying to ask for a miracle. The warrior is holding the line against multiple low power minions (1 HP or half hearts in ICRPG, 1/2 HD monsters in AD&D, etc.). Those scenes are their scenes with the spotlight. Be careful that these don’t take too long, but if all the players are obviously interested and watching with some excitement, go heavy.

Wasted turns are only a problem if people are bored. If they are enjoying another player having the spotlight and watching that unfold, it’s not a problem.

AC

#7

Thanks for answer. It makes me more optimistic to run for bigger groups. Thing is we want to get an open table community at our youth centre going and therefor it isn’t optimal to run 4-5 PC games, cause maybe it could be 6-7 or might even 10. Your answer at least gives me the feeling that it’s possible :slight_smile:

In regards to all answers I draw the following conclusion for myself.

  • Explain Recovery: I didn’t make an effort to explain what the recovery action is and will emphasize that it should be their go-to action if they have time for it in game
  • Encounters / Multiple Encounters: I will try to think of encounters in splits and put multiple encounters into one. Of course with some adjustments and such.
  • Splitting the party: Either inside encounters as said in the previous point or even in the game. This of course makes it harder for me, cause I need to run twi simultaneous games, but that’s not so much of a problem
  • Solo Plays: If the opportunity arises I will just let one PC go at the story while the others recover and or in one group turn describe what their characters are thinking and talking about. Then switch back to standard round table initiative.
  • Encounter Phases: As a tool to split the party inside of encounters and switch up the encounters for diversity and challenge. Simply put, after reaching a certain tipping point or threshold the dynamic of the encounter changes. I hope I got that right. The encounter phases feel like a general tool I should be using also for small groups to keep the time pressure and chaos up.
  • Implement Death as an opportunity: I don’t shy back from downing my PCs cause with loads of players a death could turn into yet another encounter objectives without needing to prep one. This feels lazy, but valuable and effective ^^

Thanks for the help, guys :slight_smile:

#8

And of course, one I will always forget… Put treasure in places where it is hard to reach. So valuable loot is somewhere in the encounter and must be actively aquired by the PCs. Treasure chests must be opened and so on.

#9

The only place where I slightly differ from AC is, beware of moments where the spotlight is only on one PC. You don’t want others getting fidgety, stacking dice, pulling out cell phones, etc. So, just be cognizant of those moments. They have their place, but you don’t want to “lose” other players to aimlessness.