5E Hardcore Spells


#1

Does anyone have clarification on how spells are cast? The rules mention doing away with slots, but the roll against DC is optional, so RAW can you cast an unlimited amount of times without any drawback?


#2

I believe that you roll against the room. Choose what you want if they don’t meet the Room DC. Personally, I play with a d4 that counts up every time they fail a spell. If they make the easy target, the spell still goes off but with a negative effect to the caster. I haven’t added anything to meeting the hard target, but still give a bonus for nat 20s.

Edit: When the d4 counts up to 4, they make a con save. if they fail, they can’t cast spells for 1d4 rounds. If they roll a natural one, they forget said spell. I give out lots of loot, so I don’t see this as much of a drawback - I try to give a new spell every two to three sessions.


#3

Does anyone have clarification on how spells are cast?

  • Rule of thumb - any spell that deals damage to an enemy requires SOME kind of roll.

  • Some spells require NO ROLLS!!! Just meet the requirements for casting time, range, components, duration, target, and area of effect. UNLESS YOU ARE USING THE ROLL TO CAST OPTIONAL RULES.

  • See pg 205 Players Handbook under Attack Rolls…The spell description tells you if it’s an attack roll (player rolls the d20) or a save (DM rolls the d20). Except armor of agathys, magic missile, cloud of daggers, heat metal, fire shield, and shadow of moil; damaging spells need a roll, but not all.

RAW can you cast an unlimited amount of times without any drawback?

  • RAW (5e Hardcore) … see page 12 of version 1.9… specifically as a wizard, you can memorize/cast your level x2 spells.

  • For example, you are 3rd level wizard, you have 9 learned spells (you learn 3 new spells of that level), and can memorize (your level x2) 6 of those each morning.


#4

I will be using this for my next D&D campaign. Followup question - a caster gets 3 spells of their level. Does this mean at level 9 they can pick up to 3 level 9 spells to add to their known spells? And what happens at level 10? OR they get 3 spells of the level they would normally get - so at level 5 they can pick 3, 3rd level spells?

Separately, any reason for not allowing “3 spells of their level or lower”?


#5

Yes, the level 9 caster receives 3, level 9, spells to add to their spellbook.

A level 9 caster would have 3 spells of level 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, and 9 each. A total of 27 spells in their spellbook. In addition to anything they find adventuring or learn/steal/trade from other sources.

My House Rule:

At level 10 or higher, pick 3 spells of any level.

There is no reason to not allow “# spells of level or lower”.

Remember there are no rules, only guidelines… (like the pirates code). Others may or may not agree, but that’s what I think.

Maybe this will help…

KNOWN SPELLS PER CASTER LEVEL

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to be continued…


#6

Continued from above…

MEMORIZE/CASTING LIMIT BETWEEN REST**

For Bards, Sorcers, Wizards, and Warlocks…
image

Therefore your 9th level wizard should have 27 spells (3 of each level) in her spellbook. She is able to memorize up 18 spells of any level she knows, in any combination/duplication.

To quote RUNEHAMMER from page 12 of HC MODE:
“Most importantly, remember to keep your GM mind open, and work with players to find simple, exciting solutions to magic.”

Game On!


#7

Perfect, thank you. I’ll be using the “roll to cast” variant so not limiting their casts per day. What I will do is have divine casters select from their spell list daily while arcane casters use spell books to add a bit of distinction.


#8

If you’ve seen any of my posts in the past you’ve seen some discussion on the Roll To Cast aspect of the 5E Hardcore Rules. I’ve tested the usage of the Roll To Cast as also being the Roll to Hit with spells that have ranged spell attacks because frankly it sucks to succeed in casting a spell only to fail at a second roll to hit. It also speeds things along in terms of game play so try it both ways and see what works for your group.

Good hunting!


#9

Yeah, agree with this. Whatever you roll is the to-hit and DC of the spell. That should make things dynamic and simple. I find there are a lot of “make a save, what’s the DC again?” going on in 5e games, this should help it be a bit more obvious as it fluctuates due to the “winds of magic” (how well you roll the die). I’ll probably steal an idea from index rpg where the I set the difficult of the encounter out in public - so the encounter is a DC 20 and everything in that encounter uses that target number - AC, Spell saves etc.

Curious (and maybe this should be a seperate post) for people who have played to level 10 using these rules how did you find it? Did you have to scale down cr10+ stuff (thinking a dragon or a titan) significantly or just dropping the CON bonus was enough for the party to have some chance against the monster.

Though I think if you are going against something like a dragon or titan you should have some kind of plot/narrative device in hardcore games to beat it - orb of dragon control or similar.


#10

Reviving this topic to discuss spell slot levels. Although Hardcore updated pages were welcome, they still didn’t cover a few details on spell slots. Since different spell levels are granted at same rate of levels (ie. get level 3 spells at level 3), you also need to give the corresponding new spell slots at same level (ie. at level 2, you get level 3 prescribed spell slots). Otherwise you’ll get access to higher spells but not the spell power slots to use them. Fine. I like that Hank assumes GM/PCs to work these details out.

But then this made me think, spell power slots are annoyingly finicky and complicated, so why not go a step further in simplifying things.
Spell Slot pool. Level 1 spell costs 1 slot, level 3 spell costs 3 slots. I’m not sure the exact number you grant at each level, but I’m sure rough guess and some trial and error would find a sweet spot. Also gives caster interesting choices of saving his slots for a few high power spells vs having lots of lower spells to cast.
Not a new idea, basically “mana”, but seems so obvious now. What y’all think?


#11

You realize there are no slots, right?

It’s literally the title of the section that talks about spells…


#12

Ahaha :sweat_smile:
I thought there was just no “using spells at higher levels”.

So when it says “frequency limits on spells still apply” that’s referring to spell effect durations?
And there is no limit on how often one can cast?


#13

I understand “frequency limits still apply” as related to expending spells - as in, cast Fireball, no more Fireball for the day unless you crit succeeded or failed the cast.


#14

Ok here is where I’m confused. There is no limit in the fireball spell description. And the phrasing in Hardcore sounds to me its indicating limitations that already exist in 5e (which is only spell slots AFAIK).
If it’s just each spell gets 1 cast per day, why not write that clearly. " Critical successes DO NOT expend the spell’s use limits," implies different spells have different use limits. Ahh so confusing.

(personally I’m down to homebrew everything, but my fav group are 5E diehards, and some people need “rules written down”, which is why I’m pushing for help on this :))


#15

Then you’ll have to reach an understanding with your own group. Language is left vague intentionally by Runehammer, or at least that’s what it looks like, as it is with ICRPG and other stuff. It’s not a cake recipe, more like a… description of what the cake should feel like.


#16

But I want to know what he does :frowning:

Thanks Nic :+1:

Edit: Incase anyone else comes across this with similar issue, some solutions:

  1. Number of spells PC can memorise a day = number of spells they can cast a day (ie. 9 spell casts at level 3)

  2. Core spellburn mechanic, with option to cast when “burned” but suffer exhaustion after 4 rounds (so casters can cast all day but not spam.)

  3. Mana points (int/wis/cha x level = total, half for “hybrid” casters), so higher level spells costs more.


#17

Just be careful not to confuse 5e Hardcore rules with ICRPG rules… they are 2 different rulesets. Similar but different…